Labels, Identity & Finding Your People

Mary · 00:01
Dylan,

Dylan · 00:02
what was your favorite part of today's episode? My favorite part was that I thought I sounded really smart. Oh, I agree. Reggie,

Reggie · 00:08
I love Tim's WHAT IF statement. S

Speaker · 00:09
Oh,

Tim · 00:11
and I love that Mary said, Let's just wing it.

Mary · 00:14
I like when Tim quoted the Dark Knight.

Dylan · 00:17
Awesome. I

Mary · 00:22
Can't you feel it,

Reggie · 00:34
okay,

Mary · 00:35
oh, I breathe too early.

Mary · 00:40
Okay. One Two ready and Hi and welcome to age. I'm Mary green, and I'm joined by my colleagues, Dylan Garcia, Reggie Tidwell and Tim Scroggs. I feel like I should take that again. Hi. I'm should

Reggie · 01:04
take that

Mary · 01:05
again. Hi. Welcome to age the podcast. We don't really know what that means yet, age where I was pitching for a while, age less, which I thought was kind of more us, but there's a couple we

Tim · 01:20
hope it becomes ageless.

Mary · 01:22
Yeah, well, we are ageless people. I don't think are allowed to say that the young people,

Reggie · 01:29
young people. Is that

Tim · 01:30
what we're developing,

Mary · 01:31
the oldies and the youngies, but we basically were having a lot of conversations about each of us was born in a different decade. We have about 10 years of life separating us, and we just started noticing how much of a difference that makes on our worldview and our view of brand and politics and philosophy and technology and all those other things. And we like to wax a little bit poetic and get a little mushy sometimes. So here's an outlet for that, we should also probably tell them that we are a creative studio based out of beautiful Asheville, North Carolina, up Is there anything else? Oh, we should explain the trash can. Do you want to tell them,

Reggie · 02:14
are we?

Mary · 02:15
Who are we? Do you want to do names and like, where we came from?

Reggie · 02:18
No, just who are? Because you, you know,

Dylan · 02:20
40 hearts,

Reggie · 02:21
yeah, yeah. I know

Mary · 02:21
creators of enduring value. Is that what you

Reggie · 02:26
mean or like you're Mary green,

Mary · 02:27
she's Dylan Garcia. Broadcaster,

Mary · 02:32
I'm Mary green,

Dylan · 02:34
I'm Dylan Garcia.

Reggie · 02:35
I'm Reggie Tidwell. I'm Tim Scroggs.

Mary · 02:38
Scroggs,

Dylan · 02:41
so when we came together to talk about all the differences in our age, we wrote a bunch of topics. Each one of us wrote all these topics on these little sticky

Tim · 02:50
notes, consciousness, really,

Dylan · 02:52
yeah,

Tim · 02:52
just writing

Dylan · 02:53
and so dump

Dylan · 02:54
them in. The plan

Dylan · 02:55
is to pull one out and talk about it today. Do

Mary · 02:58
you want to do the honor?

Dylan · 02:59
Oh, I would love to I

Mary · 03:03
hope it's good.

Tim · 03:04
I'm nervous this is unprepped.

Dylan · 03:06
Labels,

Tim · 03:07
unedited labels.

Mary · 03:11
Dylan wrote all of these

Reggie · 03:13
labels.

Mary · 03:14
Okay.

Tim · 03:16
First away it goes. I think about, yeah, labels.

Dylan · 03:21
I hate labels. Yeah. I like, I yeah, I hate labels. I hate how it like, has personally, like, I hate when people, like, put this label on, or like, a stereotype, and it's like, it just feels like you're just writing it off mentally in your brain, and not like, allowing like, true personality to come out, because you've made the stereotype. So I have a bitter taste about labels in my mouth.

Reggie · 03:46
I feel

Reggie · 03:46
like, oh, go ahead. I was gonna say. I feel like labels can be very limiting to you, because once someone labels you, you kind of feel like you're either having to play into that label, and it could kind of keep you from whatever your true trajectory

Dylan · 04:01
is

Reggie · 04:01
I see net labels as definitely negative. What were you gonna say?

Tim · 04:06
But you design labels for living

Mary · 04:08
labels all the time.

Reggie · 04:09
That's S

Speaker · 04:09
true. It's

Dylan · 04:10
kind

Mary · 04:11
of our whole interest. Yeah, I do feel conflicted. I also like my first reaction, especially if somebody puts it

Dylan · 04:20
on me hate

Mary · 04:20
a label like, I think a lot of people have that reaction to things like astrology. They're like, well, I don't that doesn't determine my life path and who I'm going to be in my same Exactly, right? Alex hates that stuff too. He's like, Don't put me in a box.

Tim · 04:34
Yeah, yeah. And

Mary · 04:35
I, I'm

Reggie · 04:36
labeled Taurus. I'm not like any other Taurus. Come on.

Mary · 04:39
But, but Reggie likes his things. And Reggie nice thing. Reggie's a homebody and like, makes the environment, damn

Reggie · 04:48
it. Is that Taurus stuff.

Mary · 04:49
You

Tim · 04:52
are your lady.

Mary · 04:55
But I also so those things exist. And like, it can be frustrating, but I. Also am from. I mean, it's not everybody in their 30s, but I think that there are certain things that, especially when they've first come to, like, exist in the zeitgeist. Like giving it a name helps you figure it out. So, like, I'll use queer identities as an example. We've got all these different ways you can identify and you can have a specific word for everything, like, are you bisexual? Are you pan sexual? There are so many people who don't even care to get into the nitty gritty of what that means, and that's not even language that enters their mind. But for some people, it's really helpful to, like, pinpoint that part of your identity, and that's not to say it can't change. So I don't know mixed emotions about it. I

Reggie · 05:44
actually agree with you on that point. Like, for instance, a DSM v5 which is the book that has all the like, you know, personality disorders and psychological

Mary · 05:53
I thought you were naming like a camera.

Reggie · 05:57
Think about it like, if so, they will label people based on a certain number of traits that they have. And what can be helpful in that is that if they are exhibiting a certain amount of traits based on something they've already identified as a condition, it may help them be able to support that person better, like, okay, so this person is a borderline personality disorder. They might benefit from this type of treatment, a huge

Mary · 06:27
one, I think, in this era, is all kinds of neuro divergence, absolutely. Yeah, what, Tim, what do you think of labels?

Tim · 06:34
I have a kind of embarrassing story about

Mary · 06:36
labels.

Tim · 06:38
So I grew up embarrassing

Reggie · 06:39
stories,

Tim · 06:40
kind of lower middle class or upper lower class? Can you have upper lower class?

Dylan · 06:44
Yeah,

Reggie · 06:45
upper lower class

Tim · 06:46
a lot of money. That's all I'm saying as a kid, and I couldn't afford the labels that the kids at school were wearing,

Reggie · 06:52
yes,

Tim · 06:53
and so I had a Walmart shirt that was very similar color to North Face, yellow. And I loved North Face. I was a climber as a kid, or I wanted to be, but I also couldn't afford that gear. I took a Sharpie and I drew somewhat off center and diagonal, because I looked at it later and I didn't have the shirt organized, right? I drew the North Face logo on my shirt. It was actually pretty good, so it's like an expression of my art, yeah, and my skills as a designer,

Mary · 07:25
sponsorship bits, if anybody wants to get S

Speaker · 07:28
in

Reggie · 07:28
North Face.

Tim · 07:29
And North Face is still a strong label. And I in Patagonia and all these labels that you see walking around, but as a kid, I guess I saw that label as a group I was connected to, like a thing I like to do, or a value or a quality I wanted to

Reggie · 07:46
culture, yeah, so I wanted S

Speaker · 07:47
to

Tim · 07:47
relate to it and be inside of it, and so I just made my own

Reggie · 07:50
labeled, did you get

Tim · 07:52
no? But everyone was probably not.

Reggie · 07:56
You walked into school.

Tim · 07:58
It's embarrassing now, and I also had blonde tips on my hair.

Reggie · 08:03
Now that's more

Dylan · 08:06
embarrassing, like

Tim · 08:07
out

Reggie · 08:10
of

Tim · 08:11
my mind

Reggie · 08:15
episode like, you know, no

Dylan · 08:17
I need will to

Reggie · 08:21
stone. Stuff, the references from so

Tim · 08:25
like the rest of us, I am conflicted about labels, because I love them and I hate that they

Tim · 08:30
do. What

Tim · 08:31
you're saying.

Dylan · 08:31
My generation right now is, like, on this trend of, like, we're not gonna wear people's brands. There's like, 5050, of us. It's like,

Reggie · 08:38
oh yeah. 50

Dylan · 08:39
of us are, like, really invested into, like wearing the brand and like wearing the label, like, whether it's like the iconic gap logo, like the Nike everything like that, and the other 50% is like, why am I walking around as free branding for someone

Reggie · 08:52
no free advertising? Think about it. Remember the like back in the day the Tommy Hilfiger and Nautica were all about big branded labels on everything, and I never got into that, because I was like, you know, I didn't feel very unique to me for one and then two, like, why it's same? I have that same feeling like, why am I gonna walk around as a big advertising statement for some brand that I don't even really care about?

Mary · 09:18
But on the flip side, and this starts to get into, like, the business world that we live in. And this is hilarious that we're saying all these things about labels as people who like design logos. Yeah, I think, you know, there's also a side of it that is if a brand stands for something. And I might say North Face is an example of Patagonia is a really good one, like you were tapping into something about the thing that people who, like North Face, share these values or this world culture, yeah, and either you wanted to participate in that, or you wanted to be seen as participating in that, somehow, some way, right? So I think in some ways when it comes to something. Like a logo, where it's like a banner that you're waving for everyone to see. It's a little bit about like finding your people. It definitely

Tim · 10:07
is. And I think everything comes back to brand. I think it is like a grouping mechanism. Imagine the impact brands have today. The brand Elon Musk to move the election his brand, SpaceX, Tesla Elon moved and election his money. But brands make money like there are these their power. I think governments will actually become sidelined because of brands and corporations that have right attention and move and power in in that attention so and what's weird is that I grew up feeling more like us now. And I don't know if you feel this way too, Mary, but I don't like wearing big branded things. I don't like my shoes to be branded. I don't like my clothes to be branded, which is the direct opposite of what I was then. So I think that there was, like, an identification issue I had, S

Speaker · 10:53
like,

Tim · 10:53
I didn't know how to identify, yeah, who I was to someone that didn't know me. So I thought just putting a label on myself would give me that

Mary · 11:00
like I'm I'm like, these people, right? You know what I'm noticing now, and maybe this comes with age, I don't

Tim · 11:09
know.

Mary · 11:11
But like I you, I'm less attuned to, in fact, I'm very put off by the label, with the words and the graphics, unless it's like cool, like street style, which has its own, like, lore and background. But I'm more attuned to like, Oh, who's the maker of that cool thing? And you start to notice the design qualities of the item, yeah. And it's less about whose name is on the item, and it's more about craftsmanship and style of the things, like, I work, yeah, type S

Speaker · 11:39
of

Reggie · 11:39
company that they are too. I think that, like you were saying about north facing Patagonia, if they're a company with sensibilities like it, makes you more attracted to them.

Tim · 11:48
But don't you think it hides, or at least manipulates, when something could change value even under the same brand, like when it's sold into a bigger VC, or it's sold into a bigger brand, and they start taking ingredients out or lessening them,

Reggie · 12:04
or they start using

Tim · 12:05
the child, right? Yeah, in the back in the day, early, early, early times. Used to Know someone in a community, and they made this type of bread, and they everyone loved it. And there was a quality of

Mary · 12:15
Tim's bread,

Tim · 12:16
right? There was an understated branding there, because it was word of mouth and it was a name, and everyone trusted that person as a part of the community. But now brands have come in and kind of run off a lot of the smaller shops, S

Speaker · 12:27
and

Tim · 12:28
you have to trust that that brand is giving you that same level of interconnected community based quality that someone holds them to it. Have you ever tried to call community customer service at a big brand? Oh,

Mary · 12:40
these days, S

Speaker · 12:41
yeah,

Tim · 12:42
no matter if it's us, postal service or UPS, there's no one that wants to talk. Used

Mary · 12:47
to be that they outsourced it to somebody who would work for cheaper, may or may not, just like press

Reggie · 12:55
four if you want to stay system forever, I tried

Tim · 12:58
to call capital one the other day before some scam charge

Mary · 13:01
over before you start,

Tim · 13:02
I got moved. I was on the phone for like, two hours, moved between six different agents.

Reggie · 13:07
Oh my gosh.

Tim · 13:07
And I outright threatened them. I was like, This is the worst experience I've ever had. Ever S

Speaker · 13:13
come

Reggie · 13:13
into your house.

Tim · 13:14
I know. I was like, and one and one guy just blatant, like, almost like an AI. He kept seeing the same thing over and over, and I was

Reggie · 13:21
like, I said,

Tim · 13:22
I need you to prove to me that you're human. That's because you sound like AI, right now, yeah,

Reggie · 13:26
that's so infuriating

Mary · 13:27
when they

Reggie · 13:27
do that,

Tim · 13:28
right? So brands, I think, have changed labels. Brands the power it says it's a conflicted topic.

Reggie · 13:36
You were talking about brands that maybe stood at some level of desirability at some point, but then had fallen because they either started outsourcing their stuff to be made in China or whatever. But Moog was one of those companies that had this in there, based in Nashville, based in Asheville, really powerful company. The President's a friend of mine. He actually did the whole employee owned thing, which I was like, Man, you really got to support this. But then he sold it, and then the company that bought it ended up basically, I don't know how much of it is actually handmade in Asheville anymore. A lot of it is made in like China.

Tim · 14:15
And then sometimes they elevate the hand done to a higher level than it was,

Reggie · 14:20
yeah, and

Tim · 14:21
they lower the quality stuff you're used to buying. But

Reggie · 14:23
before everything was made, like I knew the engineers here that were making it, they're friends of mine, so I knew you see Moog on a stage. You know that that is a high quality synthesizer that has been tested and built and hand crafted right here in the mountains of Asheville, North Carolina. And now when you see it on a stage, it doesn't have the same value.

Tim · 14:44
And that literally hurts me at the heart, because this is what we do, yeah, and I have an existential crisis like every six months or so, because this is what we do, and it's not what we're talking about. Isn't what we do, right? We do branding which can be made to cause these type of. Issue? Oh,

Reggie · 15:00
absolutely.

Mary · 15:01
Well, and that's this is the thing that really will get into, like, chicken and egg conversations. We're trying to figure out our agency strategy in these uncertain times. And I think part of our issue is that you, if you state that you're a branding agency, you're a labels agency, yeah, S

Speaker · 15:17
right, right.

Mary · 15:18
It's like, oh, let me make a logo. Let me make the mask that covers up all the values. But I do think, I mean, we've all talked about this before, the shift is going toward values. And I think that I'm interested to run some tests and be like, what if you just led values first and then let the name be the backup. Like, Oh, and when I want to remember who has these values and sells this thing, I'll call them this. I don't know, but I feel like the hierarchy is shifting.

Tim · 15:44
But imagine if the youngins are not wanting to wear brands. Imagine if you pulled your label back and you let it with a value set. Well,

Mary · 15:52
there's a

Reggie · 15:53
I can see Dylan DESIGNING HER OWN labels to wear.

Mary · 15:56
Oh my god,

Dylan · 15:57
this

Tim · 15:58
morning. Did you sell those little

Dylan · 15:59
this is my grandmother shirt. She sewed these on

Reggie · 16:07
your Is this the Vogue? Grandmother,

Tim · 16:12
Grandma? Grandma

Reggie · 16:13
used to work for Vogue.

Mary · 16:15
This is why Dylan always looks better than we do,

Reggie · 16:19
better than all of

Dylan · 16:21
us. So this is, like, a what is it Talbots shirt.

Reggie · 16:26
She sewed all those little rain Scroggs and stuff on there. I love it.

Mary · 16:32
I'm seeing more people doing it and like, changing buttons and brooches. They're huge right now. But I'm curious, do you relate to the idea of quiet luxury. Does that mean? I

Dylan · 16:43
think it really does. Because I think is me is like being in, like, at a young age, I was immersed in, like, the luxury kind of brand. To me it's like, then you maybe have a different explanation, but it's just like subtle luxury. Like, if I brought in, like, let's say, a Coach bag, but it has like the quiet labeling, screaming,

Reggie · 17:15
coach, It's understated luxury. Then

Dylan · 17:19
I like quiet luxury, because especially another

Tim · 17:21
term,

Dylan · 17:22
especially with just my grandmother and working for like these brands, like very luxurious brands, I got, like, immersed in, like, some really high quality things really soon on as a child, and so my taste as a young adult kind of was Very fluctuated. And

Tim · 17:40
if there's anything experimental, it's high fashion, oh yeah. Like they go crazy, and then we get filtered down some like looted drawbacks, calm version of what's being experimented. So I love that edge of fashion where you can just take a shirt from a random department store, stuff on it, and all of a sudden it lives, yeah, S

Speaker · 18:00
walk out

Reggie · 18:00
and it's me walk out and walk into a big room and see four people wearing the same shirts.

Mary · 18:05
Yeah. Well, don't you think, though, again, this might be growing up. I feel like I am more attuned to like, Oh, what's this fabric? What fibers is this made of? It's like, cotton

Tim · 18:18
fabric. This has

Mary · 18:20
been laundered, and it's crisp and it's taken care of it. You know, that S

Speaker · 18:25
kind of story? Yeah, there's

Mary · 18:27
more to it that says something about who, not only like the brand that you bought this from, sorry, we made this whole thing about this amazing shirt. Hey, really glad that we did. But, like, yeah, qualities of it. And then what you've done with it? Did you launder it? Did you so exciting? I was gonna say broaches. There's

Dylan · 18:45
all little stuff. There's a dragonfly, there's a bug. Is

Reggie · 18:47
the word laundered? Like, quiet luxury,

Tim · 18:51
like more

Reggie · 18:53
really

Tim · 18:54
laundered money. You know, that's

Dylan · 18:56
like,

Reggie · 18:58
Honey, have you laundered the clothes yet?

Tim · 19:02
Sound very luxurious.

Mary · 19:05
Laundry is like, Yeah, throw

Tim · 19:08
it in

Mary · 19:09
there. Is like, I starch this and I iron

Tim · 19:13
laundry. S

Speaker · 19:15
Yeah,

Mary · 19:15
I'm having this laundered.

Reggie · 19:16
It's like a spa day.

Mary · 19:21
Maybe

Reggie · 19:21
my clothes are having a spa day because they're being laundered. Here's

Tim · 19:24
something I find interesting about what you were saying about the materials, is that there is a need in our economy to scale things because you can't S

Speaker · 19:35
do

Mary · 19:35
it there.

Tim · 19:37
Well, the thing is, you can't make

Reggie · 19:39
Well, there's a design

Tim · 19:40
make the product and enough money to live, unless you scale so like there's this, there's this, there's this frustration or this friction. So even of a local company here in Asheville, which we who we love, eastwork, we knew them when they were designing and making with their hands, their dishes, S

Speaker · 19:58
their

Tim · 19:59
pottery. Yeah, they have scaled up, and people around the nation, maybe even the world, know them now,

Reggie · 20:05
oh yeah,

Tim · 20:06
they've had to change certain processes, which they get some heat about, because they're not all handmade anymore. They do certain handmade specials, but a lot of them are built in a different way, and all of us old lovers of the brand, we can complain about it, yeah, but it's like, in an in an effort to support more staff, to make the company more of an impact, they pay all their their employees a living wage, and they keep increasing that as living wage goes up. This is not supposed to be a commercial for Easter, even though we would do esport commercial

Dylan · 20:41
and eat a mug,

Reggie · 20:42
yeah?

Tim · 20:42
But the thing I was saying is that you get stuck in this. It's like, maybe it's like, this relationship with with the environment you're in, that you can become the thing you hate because you want it to be good. Like Patagonia started off with this really intense, and it still is intense,

Reggie · 20:58
yeah,

Tim · 20:59
compared to other organizations of their size, but I know someone personally who worked inside of Patagonia for 11 years, and they say it's nothing like you think it is. It's not a great environment to work in. Yvon Chouinard does not come in with the glorious halo on his head like we all think he does. He's intense. He comes in and he just yells at people, and I'm not gonna spread rumors. He's intense. He's intense, and probably it's his, right? You have that size company. You just got to get intense.

Reggie · 21:29
I'm just saying that intensity is

Tim · 21:30
it's like the quote, right? It's like the quote in the Batman movie. You live longer die the hero, or you live long enough to become the villain,

Dylan · 21:41
only the good guy, young William,

Tim · 21:50
they said. So brands like they start off East fort Patagonia as this hero. We make all our own fabrics with ladies in some country where they're supporting their home life, and then all of a sudden, like, 10 years later, they're like, kids are producing everything. Yeah, so it's what is that, is that,

Mary · 22:09
well,

Reggie · 22:10
at scale?

Mary · 22:11
Not to question the premise, but let me question the premise and say, like, do we need to scale? Or is that just the norm, and everybody wants to become a billionaire. And the only way you become a billionaire is to scale and get involved in higher financial markets and things,

Reggie · 22:29
I mean, the East Fork example, I think is cool, because, to Tim's point, like part of their their desire to scale was so that they could support more people and be able to play pay their employees a living wage. Their employees are pretty awesome. And the people that I know that work for East Fork are really, like, completely elated to be a part of that company. And so there are stories like that that feel really good, but then I'm sure there are a lot of them where the company has scaled because the leadership wants to be wealthier and wealthier, and that doesn't trickle down to the staff. But here's the thing,

Tim · 23:05
there are two types of businesses. Well, there are multiple types, but the two types that are kind of grouped with what we're S

Speaker · 23:10
talking two

Dylan · 23:10
Label types

Tim · 23:11
are a growth

Mary · 23:12
put them in label,

Tim · 23:13
a growth based business, which scales and grows. I know let's label since it's label and let's label them. And then there is a lifestyle business. Lifestyle businesses are ones that don't have that much investable value. There's what someone has done, and they love the life it brings them. They like the quality, they like the daily tasks. And retired people will actually get into lifestyle businesses because they just want to S

Speaker · 23:37
work. You can

Tim · 23:37
actually accidentally create a lifestyle business and not know it, because you're not growing. That's what makes a company valuable, S

Speaker · 23:43
is

Tim · 23:44
to have cash flow and growth. So scale is a growth company. So if you want to build a growth company, and like we don't have retirement coming to us, most likely. I mean, I might, because I'm older, but you might not. So we so now we have to think of different ways to we're hearing it here first

Tim · 24:03
retirement,

Reggie · 24:05
am I

Mary · 24:06
retired?

Tim · 24:08
Maybe, maybe something. But the thing is that you're we're trying to figure out different ways to be able to retire, and a scaling, growth based business is one way to retire. You sell the company a lifestyle business. You can't sell it if you build it if you build it to a certain level, you could just keep working until you die, which may be, I don't know it's that not bad.

Reggie · 24:28
Business would be attractive to a potential buyer. It

Tim · 24:31
just doesn't have, I mean, it could, but that person, it's

Mary · 24:33
more of an apprenticeship model, I feel like, right that point, somebody's got to be in the flow with you, and then just naturally,

Reggie · 24:39
you hand it down. And

Tim · 24:40
if you want money to retire on, you need it to be valuable. It can't just give it away. I also

Dylan · 24:44
feel this way about like corporate and self employed, yeah. So like you guys especially starting this, thank you, because this has supported me for a year. We're having a good time,

Tim · 24:54
good time on this ride.

Dylan · 24:56
I so I met a really good friend of mine now. He is, like, a franchisee of, like, Jersey Mike's and, yeah, we will accept payment in subs or pottery. He is self employed. And we were talking about this conversation with him, of like, yes, he's setting up a rough Roth IRA, everything like that. But if, like, something happens with the Jersey Mike's brand,

Tim · 25:21
he's gone right

Dylan · 25:23
and his whole everything like that. So I kind of feel that same way about like self employed. It's like, is really hard to be in self employee, to like, produce this, like, art business, lifestyle business, whatever you call it, and be able to have the same as the corporate so it's like, I praise corporate in some ways, because it's able to, like, do the financials of, like, retirement consistency,

Reggie · 25:48
and you've got the benefits, yeah?

Dylan · 25:50
But I feel like there's, like, a really good joy in, like, being self employed as well. But

Reggie · 25:55
the American dream, right? Yeah,

Dylan · 25:57
it is the American dream.

Mary · 25:58
I'll say this, and we talk a lot about my baggage from my, you know, one decade of agency experience, yeah, oh, it was a decade that took me 30 years. I've only been that way.

Reggie · 26:14
What kind of baggage,

Mary · 26:18
quiet,

Tim · 26:19
luxury baggage.

Mary · 26:20
I was definitely social climbing at the time. So it's some sort of

Reggie · 26:24
fashion.

Mary · 26:25
I don't know that it's high fashion. It's probably like one of those millennial like all birds,

Reggie · 26:34
or anything like

Mary · 26:36
that. But I think that I will say this, and I'm you two, have been entrepreneurs for a really long time. I've been running your own entrepreneurial endeavors, like individually and with a team, but I will say when I stepped out of agency life, the narrative that you hear when you quit your full time job is like, Oh well, that you've lost security, like there's no you're out there on your own

Tim · 27:01
in the wild,

Mary · 27:02
yeah, yeah. And, you know, there's some people get excited about that, and maybe there's a little part of me that was, but I, I think I felt so subject to the decisions of my business owner at the time, the person who was in that company, that I was working full time for the people who founded that company, which was a small business. I think we were an LLC, until the last year that I was there, and then we became an S corp, and we had fewer than 30 employees. We were constantly the Freelancer dance that so many agencies do. We'll do another episode on how the agency model is dying and we're reacting to that. But

Reggie · 27:37
trash can,

Mary · 27:38
yeah, I'll throw it in. Let's trash that

Mary · 27:42
idea.

Mary · 27:42
But I felt an immense sense of relief, not only because I was like had an opportunity to become less burnt out by that system, but also just the security that I was supposed to feel in that full time role I was not getting. It felt very much like they could make a bad decision or place a poor bet, and now my whole job is whatever they can lay me off at any moment, like there was no loyalty or sense of like, because, you, yeah, I had no trust, because I'd seen it go poorly for other people, right? And because I knew that I was at the end of the day like a tool, like I was being leveraged to get from point A to point B, which, if that's difficult, we have to war with that. Here you

Tim · 28:24
got that in in your experience, like you felt that while you were living through it. So when I was growing up, that was the goal, to get into that safety. Because I don't know how, I don't know how advanced entrepreneurship was. When I was a kid and a teenager, my first job was at gap, and there was

Mary · 28:43
where I established his fashion sense.

Tim · 28:45
I learned to fold an entire denim

Dylan · 28:49
luxury.

Tim · 28:51
You should see me fold now. I still got, I need my kids. I like dad. They do that. I'm laundering, but you but when I was raised the the I guess the structure was built in a way that you needed one of those jobs to fit into the society. Well, if

Mary · 29:08
you want to have kids, if you want to have insurance, right, any of this stuff.

Tim · 29:12
And I grew up in a church playing music, so that's what gave me my rebel spirit to do whatever I wanted, because as a musician. But here's the thing, right? I mean, that was part of it, but here's the thing with music, you're also trying to get in with the record labels. My day, sign a deal. But the thing is, record label the thing is that when you want or need a label deal, they don't want you. When you don't need or want a label. They can't, right. They want you so bad. So there was this. There's this, again, the friction, this is con, this controversy happening between what it means to be in a label or in a company in safety.

Tim · 29:54
Excuse

Reggie · 29:55
me, sorry. Sometimes that was unscripted. S

Speaker · 29:59
Back.

Mary · 30:00
I sneeze in his office, and Dylan and I will lock eyes. We're

Tim · 30:11
like,

Tim · 30:14
rewind the film. So I was gonna say now I feel like entrepreneurship is a label that's something we're being in Asheville

Dylan · 30:25
especially.

Mary · 30:26
Well, then there's, we can talk about that, right?

Tim · 30:28
And so, and I brought this up to you, Dylan. I was like, the first question I would want to, would have want to have been asked when I was starting out on this journey, was, do you want to be an entrepreneur?

Reggie · 30:38
Oh, yeah, not that S

Speaker · 30:39
I would have

Tim · 30:39
understood what that meant. You

Mary · 30:41
didn't ask yourself that S

Speaker · 30:42
I

Tim · 30:43
didn't even know what this meant. I didn't know. I didn't know I'd be doing my own taxes, my own business management, my own everything that wasn't creative.

Reggie · 30:51
And I

Tim · 30:52
don't know that a lot of creatives at my first agency when I was freelancing, I was just going to be this free creative. Oh

Reggie · 30:59
yeah, that's not

Tim · 31:00
creative work. And I know a lot of creatives out there, young creatives, feel that sense of like they want to be free, but there is some protection in numbers. Yeah? You know, there is safety in a community of numbers, yeah?

Reggie · 31:14
Because when you're solo, the hatch you wear is it's

Tim · 31:17
just you're wearing three jobs, four or five

Reggie · 31:20
jobs, right?

Dylan · 31:21
And I was

Dylan · 31:21
like, me, you're like, me. You're like,

Tim · 31:24
Is this about me? So we

Mary · 31:25
throw Dylan around. We're like, Dylan, go there. Dylan, do this. And she has done it so far, but

Tim · 31:31
I want to, I wish it's

Reggie · 31:32
back when

Tim · 31:33
she I went into music to do music, and that career kind of ended because of the world. And then I went into, I went back to school at a late age. Had two kids in college. That was fun, whole experience. But I came out of college wanting to get into the agency world, which is where you were, because I thought I could learn the ropes in that world. And I wanted to go to brand center and in Richmond, Virginia. So I had to go back to school to do that. So that's how I got back into school. But when I got out, my wife and I were like, Let's just start our own start our own creative company. So we didn't even know we were getting into entrepreneurship, right? We just thought we could do it, and we did it, and it was intense. And I would say out there anyone that's getting into this know if that's what you want to do, if entrepreneurship is how you want to roll, because it's, it's a it's a battle, it's a

Reggie · 32:23
chew off. I can tell you that,

Tim · 32:24
right? It's not that doesn't come without its rewards,

Reggie · 32:27
oh yeah, and

Tim · 32:28
its benefits. But I think here, we want to create a place where creatives can learn in a different community than just go out there and, like, die on the battlefield, right?

Mary · 32:37
I'm worried this is one of the like, changing dynamics that I'm like, is this the cutting edge that we ought to be like, riding? Is there some in between? Like, historically, I viewed it as either you are the business owner and you're an entrepreneur and you're out there on your own, and maybe you've got people that you're trying to support at your company, like East work, but like, it's up to you to, like, navigate the business world, do the taxes, keep compliant, all that stuff, or you're this full time employee, you do what you're told. There's a ladder for you to climb, right? They took streams. They supply you with your tech and your benefits and your whatever in the workplace, and they build a culture whatever. But I feel like we're coming to somewhere in between, yeah? Because the full time thing doesn't appear to be working for agencies and the freelance thing doesn't fully appear to be working for each S

Speaker · 33:30
other,

Mary · 33:30
yeah, and especially for someone, sorry. I just like, I like this.

Tim · 33:35
You wore the shirt. The shirt is drawing us

Mary · 33:37
in, yeah. I mean, Dylan draws us in every day. She's bringing inspiration into our lives. But I think, like somebody coming out of school, the idea that you graduated and then immediately began like, well, you interned and began freelancing, is sort of a wild concept to me, like that was not ever in the cards from where I was standing, like you had to go work in an agency. That was part of why I left North Carolina. I was like, well, if I'm gonna do it, I'll do it now, right?

Reggie · 34:07
I had the exact same path as Dylan.

Mary · 34:09
Really? Freelance.

Reggie · 34:10
I did an internship, and then I actually started freelancing before I graduated, and then I started my own business right out of school.

Mary · 34:19
Did you have a your degree was business, right?

Reggie · 34:22
No, well, I had my under my associates, was in business administration. You had some transfer studies, but then I got a BFA in graphic design. But actually, what's interesting is that I actually did that for a year solo, yeah, and I decided to go to the corporate world. I ended up having the reverse experience where I was like, I'm lonely. I'm in this basement designing by myself, and I'm a social creature, and I'm like, this isn't the

Tim · 34:51
nth degree

Reggie · 34:54
at a fortune 500 company as their resident graphic designer. And they would happen to be a macro media authorized training facility, which is where I learned flash and became this nationally recognized Flash developer. But it gave me a lot of inroads to I was the web partner for all the big agencies in St Louis. So basically, it definitely helped bolster my career. But to the point of being an entrepreneur, especially if you're solo, like a freelancer, versus being a part of something bigger. It really also depends on who you are as a person, like what your tendencies are. I want to be around people.

Mary · 35:37
Yeah,

Tim · 35:37
right. I love that, because I think who you are, does the youngest and the oldest have this similar path, and we have a similar path, but it's interesting how life gives us hints,

Dylan · 35:48
yeah, that

Tim · 35:49
relate to us in our story. S

Speaker · 35:51
You

Tim · 35:51
know, like yours, you get this hint to freelance while you're in school. Like life somehow pushed you into that. And there was an element of that in mind when certain things failed, and I had this opportunity, but that is for all of us, there's a unique path that we're all walking on. So maybe it'd be the wrong question to ask myself about entrepreneurship, S

Speaker · 36:08
exactly,

Tim · 36:09
who the

Reggie · 36:12
hell are you?

Tim · 36:14
But I do think that those to bring it back to labels, there's an understanding about what all these decisions mean that's built in the label of what our world has made the meaning of that label,

Mary · 36:29
and it to the point about, like, let's not put it in a box. Even the label itself is always shifting. It is expanding, contracting and repositioning. And so like, it's, it's really, it's not evergreen, you know, it's like a brand. It's constantly changing.

Tim · 36:45
And the anti label becomes the new label. The meme culture becomes the new label, or the anti meme, as my son likes to talk about, it's just not funny on purpose. And I'm S

Speaker · 36:55
looking at

Mary · 36:55
like, post modern meaning,

Tim · 36:57
right? And then post modern is a label, yeah, S

Speaker · 36:59
you

Tim · 36:59
know, modernism is a label. There's just it's, you can't get away from it. So what is, what is the meaning? Why do we have labels? Well,

Mary · 37:06
I have a linguistics degree, which I clearly

Tim · 37:10
bring it Mary,

Mary · 37:11
but everything is just a label. Guys, something that's a packing blanket. We're using them for soundproofing, like, that's what we described it as and so now we and the reason we did that was probably one for the joy of hearing ourselves say something like we enjoyed communicating, but it's so that you and I could connect and be like, Oh, we share reality for a moment. You and I both agree that that's a packing blanket, yeah. And so I think there's a beauty in that, in the language of it. I mean, if you can allow yourself, if you can refuse to be constrained by it, I guess. And like love the ambiguity of it. It's not about what the word means. It's about what meaning do we share with it.

Reggie · 37:51
I wish I had known that in my early 40s.

Mary · 37:55
Oh, that that's called a packing

Tim · 37:58
blank. So much time

Dylan · 38:00
an epiphany.

Reggie · 38:01
It was when my wife and I were still friends. We weren't even dating yet, and we were hanging out one day, and she referred to me as middle aged. My whole world like collapsed middle aged. I'm like 41 like I'm not middle aged, and I had the harsh reality and, like, awakening, like, oh, I guess I am middle age, and I became old, like overnight, just like that, in your thinking, oh yeah, I just became oh so your body just like, No, I'm just

Tim · 38:34
but you touch on a good point, though, when you start to subscribe to the label,

Reggie · 38:39
yeah. How

Tim · 38:39
does it change your action,

Reggie · 38:41
yeah, I definitely found it very jarring. And I like, pushed back. And then I was like, Well, wait, maybe she's right. And then there's this whole like process I went through. It was like a grieving process. I actually might have been 38 which didn't feel like middle age.

Mary · 38:58
My children think 38 is very old. Oh, yeah. Come compared to, like, the people who ascribe that label,

Reggie · 39:06
there's a label.

Mary · 39:07
I've been 35 since I was, I don't know, 12. I looked at two. I'm I'm curious. You gave me an idea. We've got a little list of things that we're trying to hit. So that's what I'm looking at. I We're the next, like segment, sorry, that's a label I don't like that

Reggie · 39:25
label. That's least favorite label

Tim · 39:27
now

Mary · 39:28
the dance segment, I think that to your point, Reggie, like, if you inhabit, embody good trigger word right now, you embody the label. It does change you from the inside out, and so I think knowing that and being aware of it,

Reggie · 39:47
you can hijack the system

Mary · 39:48
label that levels you up instead of draws you down. What inspires you? What can you step into and become? It's like the process of becoming. Like you're constantly growing into something. What are you growing into?

Reggie · 40:03
I'm not middle aged. I'm half glass, full age.

Dylan · 40:06
Yes,

Mary · 40:07
absolutely

Tim · 40:08
okay. But I'm pushed back a little bit only because sometimes when you are in a scary position, like if you don't have enough money, or we don't have friends, you want the label to help save you. Yeah, what you gaze upon creates who you are. So if you watch enough videos back to back, you can actually change yourself to become something. Yeah, you can, you know, like, fake it till you make it as a thing that is real, like

Reggie · 40:33
it's true.

Tim · 40:34
It's something about walking into the unknown. Is about faking it till you make it. But there's also a point at which you can fake yourself out and end up somewhere you don't want to be, yeah, and so I call this. Just a few days ago, I recorded a video that I was talking about ruthless authenticity. And I know authenticity is a buzz word, and every company has it on their values, which is kind of lame, but in this case, it fits ruthless authenticity, like be ruthless about who you are,

Reggie · 41:01
yes. S

Speaker · 41:02
And

Tim · 41:03
if you don't know who you are, be aware that what you're watching can create who you are. S

Speaker · 41:10
And

Tim · 41:10
so in a time, in a difficult time, you

Reggie · 41:14
are what you consume,

Tim · 41:15
we sometimes think we have to contort ourselves to fit and to be successful. But that's not the way branding works. The differentiator is the most important part of branding, and labels sticking standing out. So what sets you aside from your competitors, right? So it's like, I like how you were bringing an optimistic or like, what inspires you live into that label of yourself, and maybe, only maybe name your label for yourself, S

Speaker · 41:42
but

Tim · 41:43
then we want community. So if we're aware that the label we're diving into can change us, then maybe we become more aware about how we're choosing that how we're walking into it.

Mary · 41:56
I love the food metaphor, like you are what you eat. Yeah, the same goes for like, your eyes, whatever you consume,

Reggie · 42:02
is who you become,

Mary · 42:03
yeah,

Tim · 42:04
right. And there are whole digital farms that put content out to make something look like the trend. And so sometimes we will think, oh, a lot of people are into this. I can be a part of it. And it's not even, it's a scam. That's the digital world we live in. It's a large facade and a scam. Yeah, you have to be with people. You have to be in spaces to feel what's real.

Mary · 42:26
You also have to like what what you're saying to me also resonates on the level of, like self knowledge or knowing that you don't know yourself, but like a sense of identity and like what is in here, agnostic of what's out there. And I think, I mean, we're, we're ones to talk like, Pot, kettle kind of situation, but you can't let what is popular dictate what's in here. You can inform the way you navigate, like, I think you should be aware as you're moving through it. But it doesn't mean that you have to

Tim · 42:56
become it, right, even in the age of AI, where we're, like, running all our emails and all our texts through this AI engine that's like, you should sound like this. Everyone wants you to sound professional. We're losing a sense of each other. Like, how does this person respond to their emails? Oh, they're kind of dry humor. This person's just kind of Curt and straightforward. This person's really friendly and bubbly. I know you started, you know, but I think that there was a there was a part of that that helped us connect to each other. And now AI's kind of where the thought of AI and how it's influencing people is that you need to sound clear. You need to sound professional, sanitized, S

Speaker · 43:37
almost

Tim · 43:37
sanitized,

Mary · 43:38
land everybody out. And I think our capacity to even take in those different kinds of personalities or quirks, or like to recognize humor when we see it, is probably being decreased because we're getting so much of the white bread. Sorry, white bread, people. White bread. It

Tim · 43:55
was trained on the internet, which is largely

Mary · 43:58
bland. Well,

Dylan · 44:00
it's just because common denominator don't denominator. I have this like crazy envision and like, maybe it's just the world we're living in. And like the young adult media. The Young Adult media, all that I consumed was that, like, you know, you had the Hunger Games, like the Maze Runner. And it was like, there was all these, like, very bland people who got very manipulated into the system, S

Speaker · 44:29
yeah,

Dylan · 44:29
and they, they were the cut and narrow, like the squares, basically. And then there was always, like, I called them the circles, but like, the people who would always, like, revolt and like, have that personality, I feel like brands and like we were talking about earlier, how like, government, like, swayed with these brands, I feel like it's all part of the plot. Like, I feel it's like, if someone can have you buy into this label or brand, they've manipulated you in some way. S

Speaker · 44:55
Yeah,

Dylan · 44:55
like, whether it's good or bad, like, S

Speaker · 44:57
you

Dylan · 44:57
wear the jeans until, yeah,

Tim · 44:59
that's gonna make you. Better

Mary · 45:00
bought in.

Dylan · 45:01
Literally, once it's the buy in, it's like, oh, we could release this trend, like the gap jeans. I have a pair of gap jeans. They're iconic,

Reggie · 45:12
iconic.

Dylan · 45:13
These are not gap

Reggie · 45:14
a

Dylan · 45:14
pair, but I bought into it. And then everybody has these striped jeans, and I was like, I am part of, like, what is it The Truman Show?

Mary · 45:23
Yeah,

Dylan · 45:24
I am Truman. I was like, that's where I get a little, like, conspiracy theory about labels and everything like that. Because I'm like, this is all a system. This is all a plot. And however, like, when it's trendy and it gets duped and it does all this stuff. It's like you're buying into this manipulation. Can

Mary · 45:42
I tell you here, I'm not going to tell you which elementary school, but it's one that I attended. They make teachers.

Reggie · 45:53
We're going to look it up.

Mary · 45:57
You have to sign a parent has to sign a permission slip to let children read The Hunger Games.

Reggie · 46:03
Oh, really,

Mary · 46:04
I learned that last year.

Tim · 46:06
Hey,

Reggie · 46:07
at least they didn't ban it

Tim · 46:09
to, I mean,

Mary · 46:10
it might as well be, what

Tim · 46:11
do they call that anarchist or rise against the man?

Mary · 46:14
I don't know if they specify.

Reggie · 46:16
Is the, is it that that made it that require their permission slip? Or is it because it was, it's kind of a

Tim · 46:23
it's intense, it's

Reggie · 46:24
intense

Tim · 46:24
killing and

Reggie · 46:25
it's killing kids. He's like, I would hope it would be because of that. But

Tim · 46:28
don't you think that her brand helped the revolution?

Dylan · 46:31
Yeah, no. So

Tim · 46:32
it was almost like the same thing. It's not almost like, exactly like the same thing can be good or patriarchy. She was the mocking

Mary · 46:43
Jack. She becomes this pawn, almost.

Tim · 46:47
But they try to use her brand for evil, but she rises up inside of it to become good and to so we were talking about protesting, Oh, yeah. And we were talking about how protesting can get so easily manipulated, and they send rogue agents in and just ruin the movement of a protest. Agent

Reggie · 47:09
provocateurs,

Tim · 47:10
right? And it's like this. It's almost like they've ruined what protesting used to be in the 60s and 70s. And I was asking Reggie, what is the new protest? I don't know that the way we protest now is the most effective way to change the things that we want changed.

Mary · 47:27
It's not buying things.

Tim · 47:28
What it could be not buying but what if it's turning the label against the one who like

Mary · 47:34
re re, giving it new meaning,

Tim · 47:36
right? What if labels and brands are the new protest

Mary · 47:39
cancel culture

Tim · 47:40
could be canceled, but it could be adopting a brand that is no I like yours.

Mary · 47:47
This happens all the time, but

Tim · 47:49
do we cancel or do we do? I'm torn again. It's a contradiction, like if we adopt a brand that has the values that do protest against what's wrong, that much movement together in a community could change it. That's like a protest of what you're buying, of what you're supporting.

Reggie · 48:07
It's great. The problem is when you do have agent provocateurs and you have this movement and it's positive and everything is happening, and then these people get sent in to like, I was just watching this person, my wife and I were watching the new show with what was the name of it. It's with Claire Danes. And there's this one scene where they're trying to have this like peaceful protest about this development coming in and taking over this like community. And they the the sort of the protagonist, the protagonist in the whole thing, or the antagonist was sending in these rogue agents, right to like, you know, blast off and create a big scene. And so that everybody goes, Oh yeah, see, they're not peacefully blood testing. And so then all of a sudden the label gets shifted to like, we're no longer peaceful protesters, but we lost control,

Tim · 49:05
right? So that could happen in the in the branding world too?

Reggie · 49:08
Oh, it absolutely could.

Mary · 49:10
There's an element of that that's just like you got to lock eyes and stand together and hold ground

Mary · 49:17
ruthless, yeah,

Mary · 49:18
and it's about positioning, all right? I'm not moving

Tim · 49:22
right and recording your position, holding

Reggie · 49:24
your position. And the cool thing is, people are seeing they know this is a thing. Now, I did see one recently where they were having this protest, and this guy, obviously a provocatory came in. He's like, didn't look like everybody else, but he was like, he burned a flag in the middle of the thing, and these protesters followed him and filmed him and said, hey, who sent you here? You're not a part of this look. You're getting in, you're waiting. You're not talking to us. And so

Mary · 49:50
this isn't our movement,

Reggie · 49:51
right? And they were exposing it.

Tim · 49:53
So, like, I don't know why I'm going back to the Hunger Games. I don't want to make this about Katniss S

Speaker · 49:57
iconic.

Tim · 49:58
They are tempting her to. Join their wealthy high end. Don't suffer any more life, yeah, and she refused, don't

Reggie · 50:07
suffer anymore.

Tim · 50:08
I think S

Speaker · 50:09
she

Mary · 50:10
has don't

Reggie · 50:11
suffer anymore life,

Tim · 50:15
but she chooses against it like she is ruthlessly who she is, yeah, and her story is such that, and I don't know, maybe this is a fairy tale. Maybe there's no one this ruthless, but there's got to be people that stick to their guns when they have something. I

Dylan · 50:29
think it's that she was able to stand on her true values. But also, there were so many people that were pouring into her, S

Speaker · 50:36
I

Dylan · 50:37
don't think you get ruthless authenticity without knowing inner being. I feel like that's where a lot of entrepreneurs, like, when we get in this scale, and it's like, all billionaire it's all like, internal you're gonna justify anything like,

Tim · 50:51
that's so true.

Dylan · 50:51
If you say something to someone and you're like, Oh, well, I'm never gonna see them again, you're justifying your poor action against them. S

Speaker · 50:57
Yeah. So

Dylan · 50:57
that's how the climb happens. That's how, like, the trickle down happens.

Reggie · 51:01
It's

Dylan · 51:02
business. It's business. I think, the ruthless authenticity that we want and that we're craving, we have to, like, pour that into other people if we want these businesses to thrive with this like culture we're doing so it has to be like, your internal values. We have to find people who, or they will, come to us that want to have these values that they stand on, but then also we have to, like, you got to pour into people what you want as well, right? So it's like,

Tim · 51:28
such a true

Dylan · 51:29
if you're being ruthless, like ruthlessly authentic, chances are you didn't get there by yourself. S

Speaker · 51:35
Yeah. And

Dylan · 51:36
so I think it's like taking that image of self out of it. That's how I think growth really happens is when you have the pour in

Tim · 51:44
wisdom. That was beautiful.

Mary · 51:46
I mean, honestly, all the time we get pretty heady. And Dylan's like, Guys, but what if we were just maybe like, nice to each other and connected with

Reggie · 51:56
sometimes it's so stupid simple, like, he just brings it down. Brings it

Mary · 52:01
Reggie can kind of do that too. He's like, but what if we just watched a movie? So keeping

Tim · 52:08
it simple. I like that.

Mary · 52:10
So, so what's the what if here?

Tim · 52:15
What if we kept it simple? What

Dylan · 52:16
if we did

Tim · 52:16
just loved each other? I hate that. That sounds so ridiculous, but

Mary · 52:21
ridiculously,

Tim · 52:24
not allowed to love each other in a professional context. Absolutely can. I think you should be able to.

Reggie · 52:31
Tim,

Tim · 52:32
you're mine, and I love you. Dylan, already

Reggie · 52:41
know I love you because I tell you guys all the time

Mary · 52:45
and hugs everyone every day. That is

Reggie · 52:48
true. He touches people

Mary · 52:53
too much. S

Speaker · 52:53
Isn't

Mary · 52:54
that interesting? I was like, oh, there's this broker, like, there's this professional distance that you're supposed to keep.

Mary · 53:00
And I S

Speaker · 53:00
mean,

Mary · 53:00
I can understand moments where those boundaries are important, but I trust you to hold that boundary for yourself, yeah. And I trust our relationship that you can come to me and say, Actually, Mary, it made me uncomfortable when you grab my ass and be like, you know, I was trying something new, and I get it.

Reggie · 53:16
Thanks for saying

Tim · 53:21
it for me. That does happen, but the reality,

Mary · 53:24
yeah,

Tim · 53:25
of there is true.

Mary · 53:27
Yeah,

Tim · 53:28
love in places there, there are people that care about people.

Reggie · 53:31
My What if is, what if we embrace the labels that serve us and reject the labels that hold us back

Mary · 53:40
and run headlong toward the good ones. Yes,

Reggie · 53:43
absolutely. Even if that label hasn't occurred to you yet, you know,

Tim · 53:48
just work toward

Reggie · 53:49
it. Just

Tim · 53:50
define it. Yeah,

Reggie · 53:51
to Mary's Point, just run heavy.

Tim · 53:53
We love defining labels.

Reggie · 53:54
Yes,

Mary · 53:55
I don't mean just like here at 40 hearts, but we as humans. I think Carl Jung said this, like we are meaning makers. We are storytellers. Take events and we share reality, and we say, This is what I think it all adds up to. And I think if we do that, we're literally, like, creating the reality that we want to live in. And we kind of, I mean, will can tell us, because he gets to, like, step away a couple days a week, but like, we kind of get into our own little reality bubble here, I think, and it can have its downsides if we're not careful. I think we try to stay vigilant and, like, tapped in. But there is some level on which you can be like, Yeah, we're gonna just make the dream happen. We're just gonna do the dream and not be talked off of it. S

Speaker · 54:39
We're

Mary · 54:39
just following Dylan basically, wherever she goes, You know,

Reggie · 54:44
I think there's a missed opportunity for the label company Avery to like, do some kind of play on like, labels of life, you know,

Mary · 54:53
like,

Reggie · 54:53
you know, choose your own label,

Tim · 54:56
placing that label at first. But name

Reggie · 54:57
tags, they do. Name

Mary · 54:59
Tags. Interval.

Tim · 55:01
You bring this up

Reggie · 55:02
labels you put in the like printer to print on. All those are Avery labels. Yeah, they could totally do a campaign, like, choose your own label, right?

Mary · 55:10
Maybe we should like a little bit, but

Tim · 55:14
I love when someone wears a name tag,

Reggie · 55:16
yeah? That

Tim · 55:16
makes me feel like I can talk to them in a different way, because it's like you're giving like a doorway into someone's

Reggie · 55:21
life, you'll still forget their name. And

Tim · 55:23
Wassel that works here wearing the name tag.

Reggie · 55:27
We're gonna, we're gonna require people to

Tim · 55:32
wear one. Yeah, the first one is this friend of ours in the place we work, the building we work, where's that he bought a Taco Bell one? Yeah, it was hilarious. A Taco Bell name tag that said, Wassail.

Mary · 55:43
I'm a Taco Bell Stan. I'm

Reggie · 55:47
not really

Mary · 55:47
proud of it, but I also kind of am. I

Tim · 55:50
loved Taco Bell

Tim · 55:51
back in the day.

Mary · 55:52
Like wearing a name tag is like saying, Hey, I get that. I'm an unknown entity, but I want to connect with you

Tim · 55:57
right there, and it's your name. What a label.

Reggie · 55:59
Yeah, we

Tim · 56:01
didn't even get into that one. That's S

Speaker · 56:03
the biggest

Mary · 56:03
label. Reggie, and

Reggie · 56:05
I'm okay with some

Tim · 56:07
people change their names like it's that's the most. That's your fundamental label.

Mary · 56:12
Don't talk to Mary about names, Mary.

Reggie · 56:14
Mary

Mary · 56:15
still really hard time with names, right? Not gonna turn the episode into this. But there's the baggage with the name Mary. Okay,

Tim · 56:22
so what mine is, what if labels didn't define us but empowered us?

Reggie · 56:32
I like that.

Mary · 56:34
That's mine too.

Tim · 56:36
Label sharer,

Mary · 56:41
what should we what are we going to change or do because of this? Like, how does this mean

Tim · 56:45
designing more labels?

Dylan · 56:47
We're

Reggie · 56:49
gonna approach Avery and say, we got a great idea for you.

Tim · 56:52
I do. I think I do feel that I want to explore and experiment with what it means to pull a brand back. I call it quiet, or more precise branding, where you're not just out there, like yelling and creating a lot of noise and trying to get attention, but you're attracting it in a more values forward move like that. Movements were created like this, where someone real was at the center of it, and that value it went through the movement.

Reggie · 57:24
They were the attractor that brought like minded people into the movie,

Tim · 57:27
right? And people just momentum, and it's like old school word of mouth,

Reggie · 57:30
yeah?

Tim · 57:31
When you have that level of interconnectedness, and I think that brands that come out, and this is, I guess, a case in point, doesn't have much branding or labeling to it, because we just couldn't

Reggie · 57:42
figure it out. I

Tim · 57:43
mean, we're doing I feel like this is something so weird and different in the world that, and it's not,

Mary · 57:48
it's

Tim · 57:49
not a new idea. Podcasting is probably the most worn out idea there is. Like we're not fresh on that, but the route, the reality that we came into it not knowing what we're doing and trying to define it over and over and spending so much money to try and define it.

Mary · 58:02
I'm the one who's been harping on the money, but it's like we knew what it was until we didn't know what it was, and then we knew S

Speaker · 58:08
what it

Mary · 58:08
was. I think we're finding to the place of I don't know what this we had

Tim · 58:12
it labeled it like three or four times, and we kept taking it apart, and now it's just age. And it works for me because it allows the movement and the flex of what we evolve into in this process.

Mary · 58:24
And it'll start, I hope y'all can tell us it will start to make more sense, because regardless of what we call it, there's something here, yeah, and I think it will manifest totally I think that we're doing something in my life. I don't know about how the rest of the world is living, but like, this is an experiment in presence, and I'm gonna say embodiment again, that it's like, what if you stop saying it and just started doing it?

Reggie · 58:51
Yeah? We live into the label. The label will define itself as we keep living our truth

Dylan · 58:57
through, eventually,

Reggie · 58:59
through these conversations. Yeah,

Tim · 59:00
and for all those that are in being inundated with like personal branding narrative, there it's good. I think that personal branding is good in the world of AI, where you need a stance and a value set

Mary · 59:15
makes you think about yourself too nice to do. I

Tim · 59:19
think branding is all internal, and it just emanates out. But I would say, when you're looking for a personal brand, do it quietly like you know, find it in you. Don't try and push it on yourself. Soul search. Let yourself develop and evolve into it. Process your ideas, process your thoughts and your values and things you like to do and things you don't like to do. It can be simple.

Reggie · 59:43
Live Your Truth,

Tim · 59:44
but don't just do it, just to be successful, to have a brand, because that is the most distracted trail you can take.

Mary · 59:51
It's a very entrepreneurial take on brand. But I have felt I went to the NC idea conference in 2023 wonderful. Organization. You should look them up. And I walked away from that conference thinking, Ah, I mean, there's a number of levers that we're gonna need to pull to, like, right the ship that is the United States or maybe the globe, I don't know, but I was like, entrepreneurship could be the thing that changes the world. S

Speaker · 1:00:16
Yeah,

Mary · 1:00:17
like people going into business to make stuff that they believe in, for the community that they're in could be the thing that fixes all of it in a way. And I think that that's a very different approach being an entrepreneur and saying, Well, let me take what's inside of me and figure out how to make it real. Is very different than let me study the market and identify where the gap is, and let me stake that claim and become what they need. It's like be who you are and find the people who need that

Tim · 1:00:45
hopelessly, be who you are. Love that. Are we done here? S

Speaker · 1:00:50
Yeah,

Mary · 1:00:51
so thanks for watching. This has been age. Can't wait for you to tell us what it is, and hope we'll see you next week. We're gonna get back together and do another one

Reggie · 1:01:04
week after week after week? S

Speaker · 1:01:06
All right, spread the love, guys. Bye.

Reggie · 1:01:08
Thanks for watching and listening.

Reggie · 1:01:11
Yeah,

Mary · 1:01:13
breakdown, so

Tim · 1:01:15
So me smiling. There just

Mary · 1:01:16
Polaroid. Do we even have

Tim · 1:01:18
that film? Actually find the camera.

Mary · 1:01:21
Thanks for listening. This podcast was created and developed by our hosts, Reggie Tidwell, Tim Scroggs, Mary green and Dylan Garcia, produced by me Mary green, live production and editing by will Kennedy, graphic design by Dylan Garcia and set design by Megan Scroggs, today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 hearts creators of enduring value. You.