Vlogs, Content Pressure & The Democratization Lie

Mary · 0:01
Dylan, what was your favorite part of today's podcast?

Dylan · 0:04
My favorite part is when I was computing, when Tim put me on the spot,

Mary · 0:08
that was good. Will, you got a favorite?

Tim · 0:11
I liked making prolonged eye contact with Dylan. My favorite part was when Will yelled off screen what blog came from. Oh yeah,

Mary · 0:21
oh, I forgot about that. I, my favorite part was when Dylan walked off camera entirely. Let's go find Reggie. Reggie, what was your favorite part of today's podcast?

Reggie · 0:34
My favorite part was when Tim was going on a rant about portfolios, and he said, "What are you gonna do? And you're like, "I'm gonna make a perfect.. this is

Tim · 0:59
Age, the podcast. We have a long ass conversation about a topic we randomly pull out of a trash can, but what is it really? Thank you for asking. This podcast, I wrote this on the way to the podcast this morning, because I'm always trying to figure out how to explain this podcast.

Mary · 1:16
Jesse does an opening night. The podcast, I'm

Tim · 1:21
being interrupted. Hi, Kat. I have this, I have this desire to understand what things are, and so I'm trying to think about what this is. We're doing it, it's raw, it's unfiltered, but essentially it's a reminder of who we are in an over edited and monetized world, and it's what happens when four career creatives, Dylan Garcia, Mary Green, Reggie Tidwell, and myself, Tim Scroggs, we're building a creative agency in Asheville, North Carolina. Remove the agency polish and just let you in on the real thoughts that are in our heads. Some sometimes it's brilliant, sometimes it's elegant, but most of the time it's just us being plainly ourselves, and that is something we need a reminder of in this world, I think. Anyway, let's pull the trash, pull the trash can, let's pull the top before we do out of the trash can. I

Mary · 2:12
need to let Reggie take off the elephant in the room, which is today is Reggie Tedwell's birthday. Yeah, I brought this out very nice.

Reggie · 2:23
They're making me wear this.

Tim · 2:24
Happy birthday!

Reggie · 2:25
Thanks,

Tim · 2:26
guys. Happy birthday.

Mary · 2:28
Sorry, we..

Reggie · 2:29
I'm 35 today.

Mary · 2:30
Yeah, and you look great. I pulled that out, and will gave me eyes immediately, like Mary, the fabric swishing has been bothering him in the mics, and now I've added this clanky, clanky chain chains

Reggie · 2:55
left.

Tim · 3:00
Happy birthday, Reggie.

Mary · 3:02
Wonderfully done.

Tim · 3:03
Ready.

Mary · 3:04
Yeah,

Reggie · 3:06
I knew you'd love the stage reference.

Dylan · 3:07
No, that

Tim · 3:08
was

Dylan · 3:08
really good, like the bingo

Tim · 3:12
bingo thing.

Mary · 3:13
Hopefully it's a good

Tim · 3:16
one. Oh, it will be a good one.

Mary · 3:22
It gives it to Will

Tim · 3:25
was making sure it's right.

Mary · 3:26
What was it?

Tim · 3:27
V

Dylan · 3:28
log the vlog.

Reggie · 3:34
Did Dylan put any?

Tim · 3:35
No,

Mary · 3:36
you don't anymore. I mean, I

Dylan · 3:38
put all of these in here. I wrote

Reggie · 3:40
all, but did you write that one?

Mary · 3:41
Not that I know, guys. How sweet that you think any of us remember which ones we wrote. Yeah, in case you're wondering,

Tim · 3:47
these topics definitely made vlog a stream of consciousness that we sat down and just started writing. So, there are some hot topics in there, there's some random topics, there are some spiritual topics, and then there are some like this vlog.

Mary · 4:01
Well, we, what is vlog

Tim · 4:03
like? What we're

Mary · 4:04
also thinking, like, okay, what might people from different generations have a different take on? And one of the big ones was technology, and like things that came to exist after the internet. And so I think we probably threw a couple in there. We were like, let's see what vlog. Well, I find this one completely unintroducture well,

Tim · 4:21
I find this one completely uninteresting, so

Mary · 4:23
really he says on his vlog

Dylan · 4:27
on your vlog that we're doing

Tim · 4:29
it's a, it's yeah contrast to the way

Reggie · 4:33
like drawn to it, but I guess vlogs, I guess podcasts are the new vlogs, like that's it's just the essentially the same thing, cringy

Mary · 4:41
in our own new, yeah, true,

Tim · 4:44
yeah, podcast, a video podcast, totally a vlog, yeah, right.

Mary · 4:48
What came to mind when you read vlog? I'm a big consumer of vlogs, or as some people say, v logs, v log v logs, do they still exist

Reggie · 4:59
set. It from podcast, is there an actual..

Dylan · 5:02
have you been on YouTube, like in the past? Like, he's watching podcast, because

Reggie · 5:08
this, our show is on YouTube.

Dylan · 5:10
Yeah,

Reggie · 5:10
would we not call it.. would we call it a vlog? I

Dylan · 5:13
don't think when I think

Mary · 5:14
vlog, I think one person looking directly to camera, yeah, which, like, these days more of what I watch are like video essays, it's less just like here's all my thoughts on stuff, and more like here's a topic that I got really into, but I'm sure people are still like, didn't we talk about Ember Chamberlain? Yeah,

Dylan · 5:32
Ember Chamberlain is one of my big

Tim · 5:34
vlogs,

Dylan · 5:34
yeah.

Tim · 5:35
Okay, see, when

Reggie · 5:35
I think of blogs, I think of like unboxing videos, you know, tech bros on there with their like open up this new drone like that,

Dylan · 5:46
like travel vlogs,

Reggie · 5:48
travel vlog, yeah, yeah.

Mary · 5:54
Moments pass, you got

Reggie · 5:56
to do it all over again, another eight months,

Tim · 5:58
but just wait for someone to dig it up. Travel in the world, this is his experience of his life. This is so magical.

Mary · 6:04
Yeah,

Tim · 6:04
posthumously,

Mary · 6:06
posthumanly. Yeah, are we so like you find it, you're totally disconnected with this topic.

Reggie · 6:14
So, what I mean,

Tim · 6:16
what?

Reggie · 6:17
Maybe I mean, let's think,

Tim · 6:18
maybe it's the word like people to change the bee out for well, that's

Mary · 6:22
I was wondering, because vlogs from like the time I was a tween probably to now, that has been a concept in my life, but I was just thinking for y'all it didn't probably exist.

Dylan · 6:35
Burple sneeze,

Tim · 6:36
so Will is doing earlier five sneezes,

Reggie · 6:39
it's the season. We have a dusty room.

Mary · 6:42
We'll just start a countdown, like Reggie gets number one far we get,

Reggie · 6:47
just work our way through the panel.

Mary · 6:49
Yeah, our way down. No, I was wondering if you remember when, well, do you remember when blogs came to exist? And do you remember when people started doing vlogs? And did you have feelings about it? Then that's where

Tim · 7:01
my negative feelings come from. That's why I was like cringy, definitely

Mary · 7:05
cringey from day one.

Reggie · 7:07
I definitely remember the influx of vlogs all over the place,

Tim · 7:13
but I guess I had my own vlog on LinkedIn now that you say that I

Reggie · 7:19
was gonna say yours would be like the epitome of a vlog with your mic looking into the camera going blah blah, don't we become

Tim · 7:28
the thing that we hate? All right, so I like vlogs, my actions speak louder than my words. When you

Mary · 7:37
tell me that you hate social media, and I'm like, yeah, I get it, that like as a concept, you hate it, but actually I think, as a tool, you're really interested in it.

Tim · 7:44
I am, but I, so I hate what it's doing to our culture. That's the.. I like when I first started in social media, it was Myspace, and I was in a band, and

Mary · 7:55
oh, so you're on Myspace for like the reason people were on Myspace, and it was

Tim · 8:00
early before everything started becoming like glitter floating in the background era,

Dylan · 8:05
I mean, my heritage

Mary · 8:06
was glitter and cat, and it was cool, but it

Tim · 8:09
took over Myspace and took it down.

Reggie · 8:11
Yeah, like

Tim · 8:12
it couldn't handle that much glitter. Our

Mary · 8:14
CSS styling just got there was no way

Tim · 8:17
that many cats can survive

Reggie · 8:18
too much

Tim · 8:19
on floating. What if

Reggie · 8:21
they brought Myspace back,

Tim · 8:22
they tried, they tried, yeah, they tried hard, because Myspace was, was the dominant social media, Facebook was like this little thing that was never gonna happen,

Reggie · 8:31
yeah,

Mary · 8:31
well, and you had to credential at one point, you had to credential to get in, like it was through your college, Myspace, that

Tim · 8:36
was, that was, oh, Facebook, yeah, that's the thing that made it solid,

Mary · 8:42
we have about like warm networks and like

Tim · 8:44
exactly relational networks, so the.. and I had a friend who was in college, so I couldn't.. I wasn't in college at the right age, I went to college way later in my life, but I had a friend who was on Facebook, and he was telling me all about it, and I was like, "Okay, I'll join, and he says, "You can't, you have to have a.he like, you, I was

Mary · 9:03
inviting you, I was bragging. Yeah, you have a debit.edu

Tim · 9:05
email address. I was like, what? And it was kind of the first time where I was like,

Mary · 9:10
and now I want in. Yeah,

Tim · 9:12
I was like, how do I

Reggie · 9:14
get into this club,

Tim · 9:16
right? And I was all over Myspace, and it was Myspace,

Reggie · 9:18
doesn't like social media wound

Tim · 9:22
data. little,

Mary · 9:23
they burned him, and now he hasn't come back.

Tim · 9:25
No, but literally, Facebook started because they were judging people's faces.

Reggie · 9:30
What?

Mary · 9:31
Right,

Tim · 9:31
that's how it started. They would like, who's hot from the

Reggie · 9:36
movie?

Tim · 9:37
Well, they wouldn't show you that, probably. But no, that's the background of it was it was a Facebook faces that they would like rate or something or talk about

Reggie · 9:45
that's interesting. There used to be posts like that, yeah, that was like rate the face, yeah, or something. Rate my

Tim · 9:51
professor, yeah. All these

Mary · 9:54
I was talking to somebody about rate my professor the other night, and I can't remember who. Anyway, but.

Tim · 10:00
I feel like social media, so vlogs are part of social media. I think now it's like a requirement, like there's no way you can make content without some sort of video component. Yeah, and so maybe vlogs are making a comeback, because it could be also AI-generated content.

Mary · 10:17
Is I feel like there's a divergence, though, like there's definitely Vlog Alive and well, we've snippetized it like everything else, we've made it like the 22nd whatever, and a lot of like comedians, I think, are getting a start because they're able to give you like a tight 62nd snippet and you're like that was really funny, but I think there's also this other path of like people either taking photographs or curating images from the internet, and just like putting the right song over it, or putting a voice over over it. Ken

Tim · 10:46
Burns,

Reggie · 10:47
but do you think would that be considered vlog? Like, is there a criteria for it to be considered a vlog? Like, does your face need to be on

Mary · 10:55
it? Probably. So, I think that's what I'm saying, is like, yes, the vlog is alive and well, and I think there are a diverse, multiple other pathways of content, but I do think of vlog as like one or two people looking to camera, like intentionally breaking the fourth wall, talking to the viewer on the other side,

Reggie · 11:15
like this, that was

Mary · 11:17
so cute.

Reggie · 11:17
So we're glad you're here.

Mary · 11:19
Yeah, let's do a four person vlog. Do

Reggie · 11:20
a four person vlog, we're all breaking a fourth wall. Right, honestly,

Dylan · 11:24
I think

Mary · 11:25
all four of us staring somebody

Dylan · 11:26
down would be

Mary · 11:27
a lot. Are you looking, guys? Three cameras,

Reggie · 11:33
the three cameras,

Mary · 11:34
there's three lenses. Yeah, okay, camera G 3q whatever.

Tim · 11:46
No, she's like, 'Guys,

Dylan · 11:49
like, this is cringey. I am not participating. Did you ever think about starting a vlog? Pardon me, a vlog. This is gonna be embarrassing. And, well, I'm not giving you any of this. Oh my

Reggie · 12:01
gosh, she deleted this last

Tim · 12:03
week off Facebook. Yeah,

Dylan · 12:05
all Facebook. Um,

Reggie · 12:07
I am listening. I

Dylan · 12:08
think

Reggie · 12:09
intrigued.

Dylan · 12:09
My, my generation was heavily and is still heavily influenced by the vlog, like just like

Mary · 12:16
you seem so serious about

Dylan · 12:18
it. I am what the vlog has done. The vlog has changed my

Tim · 12:21
life,

Dylan · 12:21
and I don't know how to feel about it. No, I, you remember the area of GoPros.

Reggie · 12:27
Yeah, like GoPro was

Dylan · 12:29
like a form of vlogging. It never left. Did you go pro

Reggie · 12:31
with, did you run with your GoPro on?

Dylan · 12:34
I wish there's still time, baby. But when I was, when I would live in Florida, I would put it on my surfboard, and there's so many videos of me wiping out and thinking like I was gonna be the next Red Bull athlete, so cool. Yeah, so, but the reason I thought like the vlog changes our generation, because there's so many of like my friends that we will watch vlogs to like be informed,

Reggie · 12:55
yeah?

Dylan · 12:56
Or if it's like

Tim · 12:58
news, almost

Dylan · 12:58
it's news, yeah, it's news. It's also kind of like philosophy, philosophy, philosophy. I was like Mary was saying, like someone like talking to you about their opinion.

Reggie · 13:08
Yeah,

Dylan · 13:09
I don't know. I feel like I was kind of curated from the vlogs of my life, of like all that. Yes, just seeing it.

Reggie · 13:16
You're a product of the vlogs,

Dylan · 13:18
I am, and I'm proud of it.

Mary · 13:20
Where do vlogs sit in, like, your media diet? So, like, there's all kinds of media you consume in a day. One might be you're listening to Spotify in the studio. One is you're listening to your favorite podcast on your way to work. Maybe you watch Netflix. I don't know what other streaming services, but like, what percentage of that is watching vlog right now

Dylan · 13:41
from my life, it's like 25 really. Wow, because it's

Reggie · 13:45
a big percentage, a quarter

Tim · 13:46
it is,

Dylan · 13:47
but I also think it just gives like a world of like exploration. Sure, if it's like if I want to watch a vlog on like somebody doing this, or like travel is a big one for me, like actually seeing people in real time, and being like, would I like to be there, would I like to like sit in there, then also just seeing kind of like curating your own taste through other people's taste through their vlogs, and the way they like showcase how they want to like be perceived, so big product of

Reggie · 14:16
the vlog to say I probably now that I really think about what I consume on, like, social media, my percentage might be higher than 25% because I'm thinking about political - all the political commentary, all the lifestyle commentary, people talking about, like, health influences, and things like that. Those are all technically bloggers. It's one person holding up a little DJ mic, like this, talking to camera, looking into the camera.

Tim · 14:43
Yeah,

Reggie · 14:43
those are all vloggers. I'm more of

Tim · 14:47
important line right now. Yeah, my

Dylan · 14:50
thoughts, because I have this. How this affects brand and everything. Don't take my thoughts. Oh yeah, is

Tim · 14:58
that what you were just gonna say,

Mary · 14:59
do?

Dylan · 15:00
A guy, TikTok is

Reggie · 15:02
just full of bloggers, that's all vloggers on TikTok. Do I have

Tim · 15:08
some TikTok on my face? What's that boy?

Mary · 15:10
There's a girl trapped in a well

Tim · 15:18
massive movement that's the map, social media.

Dylan · 15:23
Also, there's just such a like huge opportunity for like brands and marketing on TikTok. There's

Reggie · 15:28
like this

Dylan · 15:28
consumerism buy-in. There's also like, I don't purchase anything without like listening to people vlog about it, or like

Mary · 15:37
user-generated content.

Reggie · 15:39
That's another point, like, I am a well-researched consumer, like, I don't buy anything without googling a bunch of reviews, and ultimately, when you go to a review, it's somebody on YouTube or Facebook or TikTok talking about the product that's vlog, I'd say more like 50% of my

Dylan · 16:00
lying to us.

Tim · 16:03
We have a negative reaction to the word vlog, and where it started.

Reggie · 16:06
Yeah,

Tim · 16:07
because right now it's just called a video.

Reggie · 16:08
It's just called this video, and

Tim · 16:10
someone's talking at it,

Mary · 16:12
like the before and after of like when it didn't exist, and then suddenly it did exist. What did it feel like to you?

Reggie · 16:20
Well, it was interesting. You talk because you had a

Tim · 16:23
mine was going to be more high, higher like it was not going to go into the quantum field. I was just going to say that it was there's something I should like about it, because it was the democratization of broadcast, and that wasn't

Dylan · 16:39
the quantum field,

Tim · 16:40
it was it was the roots coming out of the ground,

Mary · 16:43
dude, all the time, though. It actually is, anyway. No,

Tim · 16:49
but I, and I should like that, because it's rebellious. Because before vlogging, there was news broadcasting, yeah, people looking at a camera, you know, like I'm here on I 26 and there's a wreck, ladies and gentlemen, that's vlogging, or that's broadcasting. Vlogging is someone who doesn't have the big camera, has a little camera, and something normal to say low fidelity. Yeah, so I should like vlog. I think it's just the word.

Reggie · 17:14
I think

Tim · 17:16
it's got a V. I

Reggie · 17:17
don't even understand

Mary · 17:19
vlog.

Reggie · 17:20
I have a reaction to the word, the two two hard consonants like that starting to work, but then also for me the

Tim · 17:29
linguist should care about this. Yeah,

Reggie · 17:31
like

Mary · 17:32
the reason you don't like it is because the word, and I'm like, the reason you don't like a Russian

Reggie · 17:37
word, like you don't

Mary · 17:39
like it, is definitely some social connotation about it, though. I was left out, I think. You

Tim · 17:44
nailed anything, I was left out. I felt left out, really. Yeah, I think so.

Reggie · 17:47
You know, interestingly enough, I think I resonate. That resonates with me. I think I felt left out, because here's the thing, you're a tech nerd like me. Anything something new comes out, you think to yourself, should I do this? Like,

Tim · 18:02
yeah,

Reggie · 18:02
and then you're, you're, you know, obviously trying to navigate this a path you should take. And when you're a solopreneur and you're busy AF, and you don't really have time to like do this thing, and then the more other people are coming out with them, you feel like you're now having to catch up, and you're like, "Dang, I didn't get started. Like, I feel like when I was first thinking about doing one, on whether it was design or tech, or all of those things, by now I would be probably well known. I would probably be well known as an actual authority on whatever topic it was, because most of those guys

Tim · 18:44
have to give five years of committed content, even,

Reggie · 18:48
yeah, think about Casey Nifon and all those people that are on social media doing that, like they ultimately have millions and millions of followers now, because they started at the very beginning of it, and so there was always this anxiety, like, man, should I, I should, I should, I should, but I don't have time, I don't have time, and then it's so it's passed. So this is

Tim · 19:13
interesting, and I want to know what, how this feels different from when you grew up, because for us it started out as like a thing that people wanted to do this. Is how all social media start, and why we got tricked into this whole shenanigans. Is there like things that are fun and post music, and you don't have to have a record label, and you can just post things, and then all of a sudden it transitioned into you have to have this or you don't succeed,

Reggie · 19:38
right?

Tim · 19:39
And that was a hard pill to swallow.

Reggie · 19:41
Well, it's just like the algorithm always changing, the rules always change, like maybe when that first came out at work because it was new, but it has to shift. That

Tim · 19:49
was the next step, because that keeps you trying to figure out how to get any air time

Reggie · 19:53
right,

Tim · 19:54
how to get anyone watching, because your success is hinged on these things working, like right now this is. Kind of our attempt at content creation. Yeah, look like how many

Reggie · 20:02
podcasts existed before us. Oh my

Tim · 20:05
goodness, that movement started before vlogging,

Reggie · 20:07
right? Right,

Tim · 20:08
did

Reggie · 20:09
it? Maybe I don't know. Seems

Tim · 20:10
like it did show,

Mary · 20:13
right? Like, yeah, the concept of people talking. Yeah, so

Tim · 20:16
radio show was the first version. The podcasting was like the democratized version of totally, because you had the gear, you could have a microphone, and a little room, and you could just do the vocals. I think the podcast

Reggie · 20:28
just made it more accessible, because a radio show is like, you have a radio station with all the, you know, but with a podcast, you can like just go buy a little camera kit, set up a camera, and then publish directly to Facebook, that's a video

Tim · 20:42
podcast. Those came way later. Podcasts were just audio,

Reggie · 20:45
yeah,

Dylan · 20:45
pod,

Tim · 20:46
so all you had. Yeah, you just had to have a microphone and a soundproof room, that's

Reggie · 20:49
it. Yeah,

Tim · 20:50
so I, I do feel, though, that I have this chip on my shoulder about having to create,

Reggie · 20:59
you get that chip off,

Tim · 21:00
having to create all this bullshit, and I love creating. I think this to explain why we're doing this. It's because we are forced to create content. We are forced to try and get attention in this world.

Mary · 21:12
We're forced by Tim. No, I didn't force you.

Tim · 21:15
I talked you into

Dylan · 21:17
it. I feel like I passionately worked around,

Tim · 21:20
threw you into it, yeah.

Tim · 21:21
But I think that there's this expectation of all of us, everyone out there right now. If you want to create a career, you have to have an audience, or else you're not a trusted source. It's like

Mary · 21:32
you have to be visible. Well, let's see,

Tim · 21:33
right? Like Collins out

Reggie · 21:35
there,

Tim · 21:36
Brian Collins,

Reggie · 21:38
we're a trusted source,

Mary · 21:40
they're out there now, if you believe it, Reggie. Yeah, totally. We have to, De Lulu is the Calulu, Lulu is the

Reggie · 21:50
Celulu. Yes, yeah. Well, this is a non sequitur, maybe not, because I think I can tie it back in to the topic. But you said chip on your shoulder, and it immediately made me think of this reel that I saw the other day, which I think reels are sort of, it's a real,

Dylan · 22:13
my skin's crawling. It was letting

Tim · 22:17
you down.

Reggie · 22:18
It was a hilarious prank. This this older guy sitting at the table, he's having dinner with his family, or his family and friends, and his wife, I guess, comes around and puts a chip on his shoulder because he's already talking about a topic, and so he's saying, well, you know, I just don't know why they have to do that, and then somebody said, you know, you got a chip on your shoulder, I don't have a chip on my shoulder, so he gets, he just gets so heated, everybody keeps saying it, but why do you have a chip on your shoulder? He's like, I don't have a chip on my shoulder, I just think that blah blah blah blah blah blah, and he's like, no, you have a chip on your shoulder, and then somebody comes over and touches it, and it disarms him completely. But it was hilarious to me. Everyone loves being the butt of a joke, they do. So you're saying you want me to, you want to be the butt of the jokes. I

Tim · 23:04
feel like I do feel like in this world, if you can't perform, you are the butt of the joke, like you, you're not a trusted source. How do you create a good video? You don't have the epitome of power right now is an audience, that is, you have the power if you have an audience. If you don't, you don't mean anything.

Reggie · 23:22
The thing that's cool about this format is that you can start off without an audience, but this didn't tell you. But then once you get to a point where you actually are making some traction, you have an audience, even that earlier content gets picked up. People will hopefully, at some point, I mean, I know it certainly happened with me, where I discovered a podcast or a blog

Mary · 23:48
calling it a vlog that sounded this

Reggie · 23:51
guy is really insightful, and so then I'll go back and look at the earlier stuff, so yeah, but this is not

Tim · 24:01
all of these things start and continue with them saying you just have to start with the little thing and then you'll be famous someday that isn't the carrot

Reggie · 24:13
I think if you're doing it for fame you're doing it for the wrong reasons I think you added but why else

Tim · 24:17
would you take your time does anyone know how long it takes to make a vlog has anyone tried? Apparently, here I've tried, and mine's not even that good. It takes hours. People that are making really high-end edited vlogs are spending night and day on these things. We don't understand the sacrifice. My kids don't understand the sacrifice. They're YouTubing, they're live streaming. What I'm saying is that they'll tell you that these things are easy, or that you can just start, and it's, I think, it's a little bullshit. I think what you'll find is a couple people will be successful, and they're the ones that they hang the carrot up for. You could be this, you could be this, you'll have that million 1000 followers, but they don't cover the millions of people who are doing the same amount of work, making the same amount of content, getting no play.

Reggie · 25:00
Our audience

Tim · 25:00
hidden, getting covered up, getting concealed, because it largely doesn't work. That's what I'm saying. There, you can. It's like the things you see, you're seeing those things, not because you're accidentally saw them, because the algorithm is showing you for a reason. Yeah, whether it's the narrative, they want you to believe something, whether they want you to buy something, it's all on purpose. I don't understand why we still think that we're just kind of stumbling onto cool content or not works

Dylan · 25:24
or hot take,

Reggie · 25:26
unless you're searching for that content directly. Do

Dylan · 25:28
they have such a good understanding of their personal brand and their selves that they are succeeding in your algorithm?

Reggie · 25:37
I think there's something about that. I mean, that's what

Tim · 25:39
all the branding tutorials will tell you, and I understand why you would think that, because they are teaching us you have to know your brand, you have to be clear, but they're not showing you the 1000s who know their brand, who are making the content relevant to who they are, and are not getting played. What I'm telling you is, they're not showing you the failures, they're only showing the successes, so that you think it's possible, so you think there's hope.

Mary · 25:58
Can I? This is a stance that I hold often on this podcast, I think that the four of us here have a shared definition of success, because we're trying to do something together. We're like, I'm trying to get paid to be a creative, help companies solve their challenges that could be solved through design, things like branding, and you know, have a great time doing it. And so that's sort of.. there's probably some things that I've missed, like our metric of success on this, but one of the key things we have to have to do it is money, so we're kind of like hoping that one day this will feed some sort of vicious circle and help us get paid to, you know, offer what we offer to the world, but I think that sometimes Tim, when you start to get really jaded about these systems, I think it's because you're trying to make the system work to make you money, and I think you got to kind of let go and say, what if the role of media out in the world has to have a purpose, Mary? Like, my reason, how are you going

Tim · 26:56
to spend eight hours a day and not make money? No one has the ability to do that, unless you're rich,

Mary · 27:02
that's an artist, Tim.

Tim · 27:03
I know, but how do they make money? What do they make money? That's

Mary · 27:06
the problem, is we don't value art, and so we're not paying for any of that. But I'm saying the democratization, and we'll put that in quotes, because we have an issue with how those elections are run, and when I, when you talk about the vlog scenery, as like, oh yeah, is the algorithm rewarding what's good, or is the algorithm rewarding, you know, whatever it wants to incentivize? Like, we're basically saying the election is rigged, if you're going to use the word wake up, will, yeah, sorry, but I'm just, I'm saying, like, I think that you have to let go of it making you money, and then it can work differently, and you can hack the system in a different way that might one day make you money. I

Tim · 27:47
understand the mind trick, and I agree with you. I totally agree, but I have to let go of making money. I'm just saying, how do you survive not making money when that's a real problem they require? But the algorithm is doing.. I'm saying it's not that it's that you've been forced to do it now. It is the requirement of your career.

Reggie · 28:05
Yeah,

Tim · 28:05
that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's wrong to make a video. People have been making performances before time like record time. How

Reggie · 28:14
much meaning do you put on that video, and how much significance do you put on it in terms of it being part of your money making, if you're going to

Tim · 28:22
take, can't do it large swaths of your life and give to something, and you're not going to get anything back from it, you're just doing it as an offering, as a free gift of artistry.

Reggie · 28:32
Now, what is

Tim · 28:33
that in the world? What kind of..

Mary · 28:34
I mean, some people say that they get fed, like there's a nourishment in the making of the thing. Also, buying

Tim · 28:39
food is a nourishment that has sound. Absolutely,

Mary · 28:42
I'm saying, do they have to be coupled? And you're trying to make the argument, like, these days, kind of. Yeah,

Tim · 28:47
I mean, there will always be these people that just love what they do so much, they just want to do it for free all the time. And everyone can watch me, no one pay me. I admire people that are like that, and they're far and few between. I think the only way that works

Mary · 28:58
is if you're getting paid a different way.

Tim · 29:00
Yeah, like working bars all night while you make videos, baby,

Mary · 29:03
and your parents are floating you.

Tim · 29:04
Yeah, well, I'm saying the wealthy do have a leg up because they can make this content, they can get the attention, they can do the advertising, and they don't have to work.

Reggie · 29:13
I've got, I've got one particular example that I think helps Tim's case. I have a friend, we have a mutual friend whose son at one point was like, oh, we all have a mutual friend that was just gonna be, I'm just gonna become like he was really big into like Peter Kennan or whatever, and like all these

Dylan · 29:34
Peter Pan,

Reggie · 29:35
no, no, he's he is a YouTube vlogger who talks about mostly like tech, like video tech, same as the Casey guy, but basically Casey Neistat, that's his name.

Tim · 29:48
You say Casey Neif, who's our friend?

Reggie · 29:52
No, Casey, calling it

Tim · 29:54
a B log,

Reggie · 29:54
and he would follow these guys, and it made it look easy. He's like, oh, they're just talking about the. Thing they love, I want to do that. His dad was like, 'Dude, you, that's not realistic. And it's as a parent who, as a kid, who you're still supporting, who's not a wealthy parent, you have to say, like, this is not realistic to go out to think you're just going to go out with a camera and a microphone and and just make content all day, and somehow you're going to become rich. That's not how it works. And so his dad had to be in that sort of tough love, tough love mindset to give to teach him a little bit about reality. Like, this is not how it works. These guys have been doing this for a very long time,

Tim · 30:39
and they put so much money into it, so

Reggie · 30:41
much money. It's not like they're just out over the camera

Tim · 30:44
making it. They

Reggie · 30:45
sacrificed a lot of money to get it going, to stay with it. And just when things were getting bad, they had to keep pushing through. And not every young person has the resources to do that, especially when they're draining it from the parents,

Tim · 31:00
exactly, and I'll tell you one other layer on this. It's the exact same thing, but at another level, is they make everything else seem simple, like crypto. Make a ton of money on crypto, trading, make a ton of money on trading, open box, make a ton of money, that it's all a money grab, because they're the ones getting the money for you, watching the content and thinking that you're going to make money. It's like a pyramid scheme. I agree

Mary · 31:22
with you in that there's a total lie around. Oh, it's easy. She can't handle nothing to see here, folks. I'm like

Dylan · 31:32
easing the tension because I'm in the middle between the parents, like arguing, and I like felt it on my shoulders, and I was like, all right, I'm getting my water. Oh,

Tim · 31:40
Dylan, I don't want you to think I'm mad, passionate.

Dylan · 31:43
Oh, trust me, I know you're

Tim · 31:45
passionate.

Mary · 31:45
You're, you're mad, you're not mad at us.

Reggie · 31:49
He's like, you guys are numb. No,

Tim · 31:52
I just feel like I want to protect all the people out there that aren't making it because of this bullshit system we've created, not we've created, they've created, and it's a marketing channel that

Mary · 32:04
I feel like take

Dylan · 32:07
it off of here and take it up

Mary · 32:09
there. I agree, throw

Tim · 32:10
my chip

Mary · 32:11
star, but I used that was a YouTube video from my growing updates. I think you're right that it is in no way as easy as they make it out to be, in the way, hear me out, in the way that, like, painting is not as easy as we make it out to be. Anybody can, like, throw some paint up on a canvas, but, like, there's taking.. it's like, imagine when digital art became a thing, people probably looked at that and they were like, "that's not art, but today it definitely is art. So I'm saying this by the same logic that you were like, oh, these parents had to talk their kids out of doing content creation. I think they do need to have a reality check that, like, there's two ways to make content. There's a million ways to make content, but one way is I'm trying to get famous off this content and let the content be my job, and the other way that you're talking about has to happen as a bare minimum is this content is my resume, and we've had to make a resume or a portfolio the whole time. Yeah, it's a new,

Tim · 33:07
it's a new involved resume, living resume. You have to keep recreating on a daily basis. Whatever's gonna say, this is

Mary · 33:13
why you got to let kids touch an iPad, or they're gonna.. no, bullshit, that is

Tim · 33:16
such a false way to look at it. And painters, there was never anyone in the old days that said painting is easy. Try painting. I'll bet somebody they did it. They printed.

Mary · 33:26
They never, they

Tim · 33:27
apprenticed under master painters. They didn't say you can be a painter too and make millions.

Reggie · 33:33
Just never saw those. That was like a thing. I'm just saying they

Tim · 33:36
weren't even rich. They set up in a

Reggie · 33:38
town square and be like, I'm a painter. See how easy it is. You can do this. We don't know if that was when you go

Tim · 33:44
and watch, you go look at the Cincinstein Chapel, and you go through their museum and their galleries. You see how Raphael and Michelangelo, they all had a troupe of,

Mary · 33:56
and they spread on the shoulders of tons of painters who had come before them, but there aren't that many vloggers who've come before us, because it's such a new medium, so we don't know, that's what I'm

Tim · 34:06
saying, but what I'm saying is to say it's easy is a lie,

Mary · 34:11
correct?

Tim · 34:11
And to require everyone to do it to succeed is bullshit.

Mary · 34:15
I think that's the same about, like, ask you know, there was a time when asking people to read and write was like, well, okay, hoity-toity, you had to be able to type to get certain jobs. Well, right, I'm like, it's job specialization, and it's a skill that it isn't job specialization.

Tim · 34:32
Videos over every career, if you want to succeed, I'm saying succeed, you don't have

Mary · 34:38
a vlog to go work at McDonald's,

Reggie · 34:40
right?

Tim · 34:40
No, but who wants to work at McDonald's? That's not a place you want to end up succeed. Okay, so let's agree. You're using McDonald's, so I can see. I can see that that is your definition of not being successful, because you're saying you can do this low-level job and not have to make a vlog if you want to do anything. Else in this world I've tried, I was like, what can I do that doesn't involve being on your computer all the time and having to make content,

Mary · 35:07
and where do

Tim · 35:08
every career is marketing adjacent?

Mary · 35:11
I think you have a point. I think there's a huge portion of the job market that we're leaving out, and frankly, a lot of people don't like to think about, and maybe those are the jobs that AI is going to come for, and everything's going to be robotics, but I still think that there's a huge portion of the population who doesn't have to make content to get a job, but those jobs are changing rapidly, and we do tend to see them as like second-class kind of jobs, but to your point, I agree with you that most of the jobs that people aspire to,

Tim · 35:44
creative jobs, I imagine, like the creative sector, because we're in the creative sector, and I

Mary · 35:47
think that's part of when I hear you talk, I'm like, okay, let's be careful, because there are like a million things out there that we don't care about at all, but that somebody else does, to be a creative, I do think you got to be visible, and you got to put it out there some way, but I do think there's a way to do it that's like I need this to be my job. There's a way to do this that's like I just, you're not trying to make money off the content, you're trying to help the use the content to get seen to make money doing something else we're doing right now. It's mostly another way of doing it that is like there's something interesting to me about this medium, like I'm a director, I on the topic of vlogs in 2024 I was in the middle of this huge vlog project when Helene hit, and my family lost their homes, and we just lost a baby in the family, and so, like, there's some really crazy footage of me talking to a camera, just like trying to process, and that wasn't made with the intention of making money that wasn't made with the intention of making money, that was just like an expression of something, and I think that's, I

Tim · 36:50
think that's good, that's a video, and that's something that's not the same

Mary · 36:53
as a vlog. Well, I'm just saying, you're not posting it

Tim · 36:56
trying to spread word about this, but

Mary · 36:58
I, I might like, we all make home

Tim · 37:00
videos where we can remember things or remember a smile and a voice. I'm not talking about that.

Mary · 37:04
I'm talking about just coming together as a piece and put it out there, like who's to say, but I think that there are people doing it in that way who happen to end up in the in this content makes me money in the way that people might love painting, and they just do it for the joy of painting, because their parents told them that they could never make any money at it, and you're one in a million, this is not gonna support you, so find something else to do, but they love doing it, and then somehow doing this now.

Reggie · 37:31
I think the monologs you do, I'm doing that because I have to, seriously, no, but maybe I have, you know, many years

Tim · 37:38
I've not done this. This is the same as you making band posters, but

Mary · 37:41
hating to make band posters.

Reggie · 37:42
Yeah, I think it's some of the other thing too. I think ultimately there are.. there is a whole generation of people, not generation, just a population of people that are making videos pretty much for themselves. It's like this is something I'm excited about. I'm just going to record myself baking a cake or doing the thing, yeah. And they don't think I'm going to be famous, they do it because it's something they're passionate about, and they just kind of want to share it with two or three people, and then eventually, and those

Mary · 38:13
same two or three people keep liking their posts, yeah, eventually

Reggie · 38:16
it may happen that that person who's now got a catalog of like 400 videos, gets somebody stumbles upon one, and goes, 'My God, this is your body of work. Yeah, that's the name,

Tim · 38:30
but that's you just literally spelled out the narrative. That is the narrative.

Reggie · 38:33
Yeah,

Tim · 38:34
it's fun. Are you mad at the cake? No, it's no, no, no, not at all. I'm saying it's the story you've been told,

Reggie · 38:41
but I'm saying Baker loves

Tim · 38:42
what she does. She's posting it because she wants to, yeah, and it's true. It does happen. People post things just like we made home videos, we made them. And then maybe someone will see it. I went through this with being in a band and a record label. Maybe someone will see your band. Just keep making. Here's the

Reggie · 38:56
point. The point is that she, this person in my hypothetical story just happened to have gotten stumbled upon, but think of all the people that do it and keep doing it, and they're still their motivation, their objective is not to be famous and not to make money, they're just sharing content, so if you look at it that way, there is no harm, no foul, they haven't lost anything, and their dreams aren't crushed, because at no point, but they're like, gosh, I really hope I get millions of followers. They're just like, man, I love doing this. This has become part of my catches

Mary · 39:29
up with me on social media. Let me show my mom, I share these

Reggie · 39:31
with my relatives, and they love following. We're talking about different

Tim · 39:35
things. I'm not talking about home videos to share with your family, that is not what I'm talking about. If anyone else that thinks I'm talking about that, that is not what I'm talking about. You can make all the videos you want about your family, and to your family, and with your mom, not your kids. I'm saying it's bullshit naivety to think that someone is just gonna be.. I just love this so much, and I'm just gonna make this cake for these people, and why are they doing all their makeup and making themselves all jacked up with face work? Because people want to be seen. And you do these videos to be seen, you're not just doing them to disappear, you're not doing them to just do your love on the side, you're doing them to show people, you want people to see you, if you're showing people, so when people aren't watching, it doesn't feel good, no one's out there saying, I love doing this, I hope no one sees this, is that what they're saying, is that the narrative, nobody, what about the millions of bacon, what are the millions of cake makers who are like, I just love making videos and showing them to no one? Is that the narrative? No. Why, why, why do they not show you the true narrative? I'm saying that the audience that we're the audience we're talking to, the ones who watch this, have the pressure on them daily, a real pressure. We know all the creatives in our space, in our city, who have not made videos are not succeeding. The ones who are making content,

Reggie · 40:53
we do have. I mean, think

Tim · 40:54
about where we are. We are not succeeding at the level of the people like Woo, or Woo, John Woo, or what's his name, the no, what's the guy that teaches creative stuff?

Reggie · 41:04
Oh, you're thinking, no, he is really huge. I

Tim · 41:10
don't know why John Woo, I think he directed Mission Possible, Chris, do

Reggie · 41:15
Chris, Chris, do Chris Doe. All right,

Tim · 41:16
see, like, here's what I'm saying,

Reggie · 41:19
he's gonna love, I'm trying to dispel the

Tim · 41:23
narrative that everyone tries to say about social media, because it is not democratized anymore. It is heavily saturated and heavily controlled.

Mary · 41:36
We didn't realize the measures by which we were being controlled. We got into it,

Tim · 41:42
and thinking it was all fun and games, and they're like, now you're trapped. Yeah, welcome to our world. Now we control you.

Mary · 41:48
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I do think I'm just never proud

Tim · 41:53
to see the negative side. There's a

Mary · 41:54
lot of different kinds of people in the world who engage with social media in different kinds of ways, and I think maybe part of what makes this so confusing or frustrating is that it's all blurry, it's like all gray. There's so many people who are posting who maybe don't know which camp they sit in, and so that's I think if I were talking to that kid of this friend of ours, saying that he wants to go into content creation, be like, well, he

Reggie · 42:21
wants to hang his hat on that, yeah,

Mary · 42:22
like that is a very challenging life path, and there are no guarantees to success, right? And I had, and where are you going to get that money, right?

Tim · 42:31
No qualms against someone wanting to do this. I have no issue with someone wanting to make content, like I want people that want to make content to make content. Yeah, I'm saying the requirement for everyone to have to make content, not everyone's good on camera, not everyone can look at it and do the performance, and so then they just get segmented out, like you're no good, you don't have any attention to get hired in agencies, you have to have an audience,

Mary · 42:54
so are you as lit up about this as you are about, tell me the difference between that and the resume or that, and the portfolio, because not everybody that looks great on paper, like I'm a people skills person, it's really hard to talk about the soft skills that I bring, and I've always felt like a resume was really difficult, I think your

Tim · 43:16
buyer is excellent, thanks,

Mary · 43:18
Claude, but you know what I mean, and that's

Tim · 43:21
another thing we're not even talking about, how AI is influencing this.

Mary · 43:23
Yeah, never mind about all that. But I'm saying there has always been these bullshit rules, and this is just same shit, different day. We've got better technology, it's more accessible to people at a lower price point. It is still a thing that you have to invest in equipment to be able to get done. So there is still this class and time difference, a commodity that

Reggie · 43:42
a lot of people don't think about, like you have to, these things take time to develop, and

Mary · 43:47
yeah, so but in some ways I feel like I'm getting a leg up if I'm willing to, and I'm not yet, but Tim's gonna teach me the ways, if I'm willing to put the energy in, I definitely feel like what I bring to my work is more easily shown in a video, like a perspective giving video, versus like my portfolio looks like charts and frameworks, and yes, there's pieces of creative work, but it was the result of a process that I'm trying to.. I don't

Tim · 44:16
think anyone gets hired with a portfolio, be honest, it's because someone knows someone, and you got a special validation, you got a special look, you got a special this. It literally is relationship.

Reggie · 44:30
I would actually disagree. I would, no way, dude. Portfolios are noise.

Tim · 44:35
Everyone's got a good portfolio, I guarantee you. You talk to any agency, or you talk to any company, and they're not just going to flip through a bunch of portfolios and be like, this one looks really good. They do. They don't have time to look through all of them. They have people, groups of people that look through them and say, this one looks good. And then someone calls their friend and like, dude, my friend, the guy was talking about that got hired at East Fork. You know what he got hired? Oh, because his friend knows the owner.

Reggie · 44:58
Yeah,

Tim · 44:58
I know the owner, but I'm. Say that when you make a call and say my friend's going to be applying, that person's like, I love you, I trust you, I think you have something good to say about this person. They can't fuck it up on the, I mean, on the, they can't mess with the details on their portfolio. It's easy to line a portfolio. Every person has been jaded by a portfolio that's not real. You get an agency portfolio and someone's like, I worked on a team that did a Google project, who put Google in your portfolio?

Reggie · 45:24
No,

Tim · 45:24
but they had no control over the project, the strategy, the arts.

Reggie · 45:28
But what I will say is that I do think the portfolio, the portfolio has more weight, I would say, even than a college degree, as a college-educated person. But a college degree gives

Tim · 45:38
connections and connections right to a job,

Mary · 45:40
but he's thinking through also, like, and you do many things, photographer as one of the skills you bring, and I definitely am looking at a photographer's output before 100%

Reggie · 45:50
You're gonna want to see what they can do. You're not just gonna hire, no, but my wife, my wife just got tired to do

Tim · 45:55
a wedding, you know why? Because her friend knows Megan says she takes really good photography, and Megan's like, "Do you want to see my work? She's like, "No, my friend told me about you, but

Reggie · 46:02
I could guarantee you that I'm not the norm. I'm not going to get a $5,000 day rate project from someone who just happened to say, "Yeah, you should use Reggie, he's cool. They're going to look at my portfolio when I

Tim · 46:15
hear that talks about you say that you're amazing to work with,

Reggie · 46:18
but they also

Tim · 46:20
has anyone called you that has never met anyone you know and said I want to hire you to do a $5,000 day rate?

Reggie · 46:27
No, it's definitely been no, it's been through because it

Tim · 46:29
doesn't work, and now with AI, everything anyway.

Reggie · 46:33
I'm not so.. what if..

Tim · 46:34
why don't I just create a photo portfolio of AI-generated content and let all the noobs who can't recognize AI hire me.

Reggie · 46:41
Yeah, that is a good point.

Tim · 46:44
I think new portfolio, it's like, how do you perform in front of a camera?

Reggie · 46:50
Yeah, because people are getting to see your character in different situations.

Tim · 46:53
Have you ever seen someone you probably saw performative? Absolutely, you put a camera on someone instantly, they go weird.

Reggie · 46:58
But to your point, it's all you don't

Tim · 47:00
get the real person to

Reggie · 47:02
your point, it's all performative, and we're all being duped by the performance. So, to that point, people that are looking at someone's vlog are being sold that this is who this person is, this is how they handle stressful situations, this is the person that's gonna show up and do the work for me.

Tim · 47:18
But why did they have to be good actors on video to get that job. What if they have other skills that are not recording videos?

Mary · 47:26
I would be looking at their portfolio,

Tim · 47:27
but I'm just saying, like, where.. but that it's.. it doesn't.. it's no longer just a portfolio. I'm saying that we've added layers of metrics and requirements to success. Yeah,

Mary · 47:38
because our attention is so stretched thin that it's almost like I don't want to have to schedule around your schedule to figure out whether you're good. I want you to have created a library of snippets that I can go peruse at my leisure, and on topics that I can search and decide. And so it's like the library of Tim. So I'm going to go be able to search the library of Tim and decide how I feel about this guy, without ever even having to shake your hand or invite you in for an interview or anything like that, so I can judge you from a distance,

Reggie · 48:06
right? You know, I would say time invested, I would say portfolios actually matter more, because as someone who is judged nationally lots of competitions and being particularly drawn to student work, like high-level student work, these aren't people that can just feign having worked on a project for Google, or whoever, like they don't have any career history, they literally just out of school. So, what you're looking at is mostly student work and early professional work, and because of that, and you see promise there, it definitely means a lot more than a career professional who's got this portfolio, and you don't know what percentage of input he had on a particular campaign for

Mary · 48:53
more about an artistic, you're seeing promise there, and I like this

Reggie · 48:58
person, because that is some really important, I think these are being

Tim · 49:00
conflated together. To do a portfolio of your work has a unique bringing together of what you've done. To do a video, a creative video that gets people interested, that shows who you are, your natural self, being true to your brand, saying the right things, getting people interested, all in one video, but not one video, daily videos

Reggie · 49:20
is a real

Tim · 49:21
different thing. We're not talking about someone getting on video and saying this is my work I did, I'm a painter, this is my work I did. I'm not saying they don't, I'm just saying the vlog world. I like to hear your take on this, because you, you nodded at me,

Mary · 49:37
Dylan's on this podcast too. You nodded on me

Tim · 49:39
when I said something about, about being, being forced to do it, and I grew up when we weren't being forced to make videos, pre-videos, you had to, you just had to do really good work, get to know people that you worked with, and that's how you succeeded, but now you have to make these adjacent videos. Make people, or

Mary · 50:01
do you? I want your see,

Dylan · 50:03
that's what I feel. So bad that you feel that way, because I don't feel that way. And then I feel like I'm consuming a lot more of the vlogs than you are.

Tim · 50:11
But what do you do? Like, what do you feel like your career trajectory is? Like, what do you feel like you have to do to succeed?

Mary · 50:19
Well, if she knew that, she'd be doing

Dylan · 50:21
it. I'm like, do you feel

Tim · 50:26
any pressure to make a vlog? No, not. I mean, I am putting you on the spot, but I was just saying, do you feel any pressure to make videos?

Dylan · 50:35
No.

Tim · 50:36
Do you like it's not a part of any of your..

Dylan · 50:38
I mean, no, like, I don't, I don't, I don't feel this weight of

Tim · 50:43
why did you have the GoPro?

Dylan · 50:45
Because it was cool

Mary · 50:48
surfing, I might shred some gnar and want to share. I will say

Reggie · 50:54
this, though, you may not be propelled to make a vlog, but you do your photo dump, which I think is kind of like that, because you're sharing part of your life's experience with an audience.

Dylan · 51:08
Yeah,

Reggie · 51:09
you're just not talking over it. Maybe I just don't

Dylan · 51:11
feel the pressure to do it, like vlogging wise. A lot of my friends are telling me to post TikToks, and I'm not really into it right now.

Reggie · 51:18
Totally post, I could see you. Maybe that's where you, that's what people

Tim · 51:22
say. I can see you posting, like, why do we have to? Can I? Can

Mary · 51:25
I tell you something, though? You and I both, and you might have feelings about this, but you and I both from come from a performance background. We are comfortable on a stage, so I feel like video makes more sense for the two of us as a medium versus something like what Dylan tends to do on social is more of like here I've curated or here I'm giving my perspective in a series of stills, like I don't know, and some people are more verbal, some people like to like our friend Jon Jones likes to write his ideas out in a blog style, like an essay style, the

Tim · 51:59
original, so Don't be log, yeah, so like, I don't

Mary · 52:03
know, I agree with you that there are a ton of issues, there's so many things that, like, are unintended byproducts or like ways that we're asking people to twist into a pretzel and make themselves into something that they're not to get ahead, but I also feel like there's still a beautiful, like, your social media is your new portfolio, whether you like it that way or not. It's also maybe potentially your interview, whether you like it that way or not. And there's multiple ways to get that information across, but over there. But I do. Thanks for being here. I think that it, you know, coming to terms with that fact, and going into things like social media with purpose solves a lot of the trepidation and the like anxiety and the overthinking that I think we can get into when we're making content that's not a guarantee of success by your metric, but like I still think it sucks, but like it can kind of be fun while it's sucking, I guess that's where I'm at. Yeah, thank you. Get that chip off my knee.

Reggie · 53:05
I would say I just had a thought. So V log,

Mary · 53:10
they're downgrading. I'm downgrading my chip. V

Reggie · 53:13
log stands for video logs. I actually have no idea. I have no idea what the B stands for in blog

Tim · 53:20
video

Reggie · 53:25
I'm not joking, blog,

Mary · 53:27
right, web

Reggie · 53:30
blog, and it's the Blog, they took the W E off, and you get blog,

Tim · 53:35
see, now that's crazy, thanks,

Reggie · 53:36
will

Mary · 53:41
weblog

Reggie · 53:42
of Okay, that makes sense. Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm just like

Mary · 53:46
a lot jaded,

Tim · 53:48
like you said. I maybe I don't have any.

Mary · 53:50
Well, you're the person who's like the most bought in on social as a strategy, which I agree with, and like you're learning some hard truths. You know why I benefit from.. do

Tim · 54:00
you know why it out before COVID? I had a very successful agency. Yeah,

Reggie · 54:09
it's true.

Tim · 54:09
That grew seven years, 30% per year. I got a space right before COVID, a big space to start a collaborative workspace. It's

Reggie · 54:18
a sweet space,

Tim · 54:19
and during COVID, everyone was forced online.

Dylan · 54:22
Yeah,

Tim · 54:23
every the powers that be. I'm not saying they cause Covid, but they took advantage of the moment to redirect everyone's attention online. And guess what happened to my business? Because you weren't, because you weren't an online business, right? Because my word of my business was spread on word of mouth. I had relationships. All of a sudden, I'm not seeing the people I normally see, right? And so, and I wasn't on the.. I wasn't on. I have a family, I have three kids. I don't have time to post and brag about everything I'm doing all the time. People knew I did good work. I did work for them, and it worked. And then all of a sudden they're like, everyone, you must be online all of a sudden. You just have streams now. Your whole experience is just this things going past your face.

Reggie · 55:04
It's overwhelming. Vlogs,

Tim · 55:05
no one can be outside now. We're making videos. We all were just drenched in it.

Reggie · 55:11
Yeah,

Tim · 55:11
and so when I came out of that, I had a failed business. And guess what? I have to do now. I have to make fucking content.

Dylan · 55:18
Well, because that

Tim · 55:19
is what I'm required to do, and I'm finally just giving into

Reggie · 55:23
it. Yeah, you're like, you know what, I don't know what else to do. You're like, but you want me to

Tim · 55:26
have a successful agency, so we can all work. It's the only way to do it. You're like, if this is the way, this is the way I have to go. Yeah, I am yielding, I'm crumbling. I would not do this if I didn't have to.

Dylan · 55:37
Well, be prepared. There's another pandemic on the rise.

Tim · 55:40
What? Can't know

Dylan · 55:41
what is it, antivirus or whatever. Seriously,

Reggie · 55:44
I don't know about the cruise

Tim · 55:45
ship. They killed a few people, but like 150 had it.

Dylan · 55:48
One was a North Carolina resident.

Reggie · 55:49
What? No way, but they were away. They weren't here. No, they weren't here. They were on a cruise.

Dylan · 55:54
Not to spark any rumors, I'm just saying, use all that that you learned, because we may be under it again.

Reggie · 55:59
Oh man, that's the last thing we need.

Mary · 56:03
Yeah, exactly. Oh my god, yeah, you've predicted something, and then we all

Reggie · 56:11
don't, not to be proud of. We don't need another pandemic.

Mary · 56:15
I love.. I'm seeing it clearly now. Tim, as the anti-blogger, anti-blog, he like stands against, stands for, but he's like within the system, like, how do I break this? And you see my blog,

Tim · 56:31
it's all broken, it's not good, no one watches it, Dylan watches, I do like it's long, it's like 10 to 15 to

Mary · 56:43
LinkedIn, and I'll tell you what, they got little games that you can play every day. I play my four or five little games, I get in, I get out,

Reggie · 56:52
you know. I think that because we become so forced into the online and on screens world, that the new commodity is, and we've talked about this on other shows, it's human connection, it's like being in human connection, and I think,

Tim · 57:14
and in physical spaces, I think is gonna be absolutely in physical

Reggie · 57:17
spaces, being in spaces where we are actually seeing each other face to face, I think, is very important to our, to our, our mental health. I think it's not healthy for people to go for so long without connection to other people. Like, I remember, I mean, there are times years ago where we were all just sort of on social media, and it's when social media was really starting to like rise

Dylan · 57:45
up. Yeah, Tumblr,

Reggie · 57:48
all that. I would actually go to the grocery store. We used to have this where Whole Foods is now on Merrimaugh, used to call Green Life, is little. I would go there just to, because I knew everybody in town, so I knew I would go there and see at least three or four people that I could connect with. I would, and because I worked from home by myself, like I've been a solopreneur for 25 years, so I was always in my office by myself all the time, and I would get this urge to, like, I could just go to the refrigerator and get what I needed, but I'm like I'm gonna go to the store because I feel a need for community, for connection, for real conversations in person, and I would literally go to the store and stay there for like two or three hours because I would run into so many people and it'd be one conversation after who does that I think it's because I desperately need it to see people in person. I don't do well with just getting tucked away in an office and viewing the world through a little seven inch screen.

Tim · 58:51
It

Mary · 58:51
limits your sense of possibility too. There's something about, like, when you're together with people, the real stuff gets really real, and you're like, oh, we could figure this out. Like, between us, everything's fine.

Reggie · 59:02
Yeah,

Mary · 59:02
we'll make the rest okay. But when you're.. I don't know, there's something about transacting with people in the little box all the time, and I sometimes I've had friends that I really struggle to keep up with, because, like, the only way I can get to you is through the little work box that I have to spend all my time working on. So, yeah, I think that in person is valuable, and we're, we get that, like, as a culture, I think we get that we're figuring out how to use digital versus in person, box, yeah, sometimes I just want to make a really niche, weird reference, and I'm like, nobody in this room is gonna get it, but it just made me think of what we do in the shadows. So the box, anyway, go ahead. Nobody cares, but below our age grade, that was just old,

Reggie · 59:56
and you don't get the, yeah, yeah.

Mary · 1:00:00
Get us out of here, Tim. I love God.

Tim · 1:00:02
I think that it was.. I think it's.. it's a conversation that is messy, and as far as it relates to business, there have always been ads and performances, and I'm totally okay with that. I feel like the place for the performance, like going to see a play and watching them perform. I'm not going to gripe about someone performing, and there are people that do it for no money, because it's exhilarating, and it's, it's an art form, and it's.. and there are artists all over the place doing it for no money. So, if from a business context, in the work we do, making videos have no problem with that, and I don't want anyone to think that it's like I'm against content creation, because I'm definitely not at all, because there is a realm of presentation and entertainment, and there's all the things that I love. I grew up watching movies with my dad, and I love watching movies, and I love that medium. I guess. What I want to be clear is that I feel the pressures that are currently on our culture, and that are, and that are moving within the social framework, the social network, the fabric of our society, and I see the ones being pushed aside, and I myself feel like I've been pushed aside, and I don't feel like I deserve that just because there's a platform that some guy thought of that he thought was a good idea, and then duped everyone into having to post on it all the time, and not only that, but then have to figure out the trickery of how they're going to change the algorithm every few days.

Reggie · 1:01:43
Yeah, so

Tim · 1:01:44
I don't like the game that is that manipulative thing. I like the game of business, I like the game of performance and art and creative, and it's, it's not easy. And I wish someone, if someone tells a kid that wants to be a content creator, it's going to be hard, and he's like, I want to do some hard things, I'm like, do the thing, make the video, do the hard thing, that's if you want to do it, do it, but to say you have to make videos and they're easy, and then dupe them into a life of suffering, and in some even get some think they want it and need it, because that's what we're being told, and it's heavy for them. It destroys them, that level of fame and attention.

Reggie · 1:02:28
What

Dylan · 1:02:29
if

Reggie · 1:02:30
there was a mode on all the social media platforms where you could actually turn off the algorithm? You could have a curated algorithm experience where it's feeding you the stuff that you're echoing you want, you want, or you could say, you know what, surprise me, I don't want to be curated, I just want to turn off the algorithm and just go on there and find whatever the fuck I want to find,

Tim · 1:02:56
that would be awesome,

Mary · 1:02:58
I would be interested, also, I'll bet this is in the works, in like a local mode, or it's like, oh, I just want to see what people within a 50 mile radius of me, that would be great.

Reggie · 1:03:09
What if there was a yeah, so that would be a really good way for social media to like make social media more accessible, because I do agree with you, the people who are desperately trying to be seen and having to fight and shift with the algorithm all the time, and I could see that driving some people insane, like trying to, like, oh my god, I'm like, this was perfect, I did everything it said I should do, and nobody's seeing it, like that would be really soul crushing. There's

Mary · 1:03:37
no justice, and yeah,

Reggie · 1:03:38
but if you could just, if you could have a pope, I bet you a ton of people would turn off their algorithm because there's content they're not seeing because they're being force fed whatever used to be

Tim · 1:03:50
able to see things from your friends.

Reggie · 1:03:52
Yeah, right. There's so many friends that I run into, I'm like, I totally forgot, but like I forgot about this person because I'm no longer seeing them on social media, because the algorithm was like, well, they're not posting this stuff you want to see, so now all of a sudden they're not in my the way that I actually kind of keep up, or they don't

Mary · 1:04:10
post because it's not their medium,

Reggie · 1:04:11
no, but the thing, like, what

Tim · 1:04:14
he's saying is, in not posting they disappear from

Reggie · 1:04:18
posting, but that's the thing, oh, you're not even, I'll run into someone, I'm like, 'Shit, man, I are you not posting on Facebook anymore? I haven't seen any of.. oh, I post all the time. I'm like, 'That's weird. And I go and look at her. Whoa, he's been posting. They just, for whatever reason, is like these other people we think you should be more connected with than that person. We've decided for you that this person isn't posting things that interest you, or that you should be interested in. So, we're not going to show them to you. I've had several friends just drop off my radar because I used to see them all the time, and I used to engage with their post, and then all of a sudden they're just like gone, and that's the kind of stuff that that is the social media people playing gods. And I think that is where the line gets crossed. If you could go in and have them have an algorithm list experience, I think a lot of people might choose that path. I'm going to say a lot of people may still prefer to just stay in their echo chamber and get what you know they, what the social media gods think they want, but I think a lot of people might choose to just be able to navigate the world like you do in real life. You walk out the street and you don't know where you're going, you're gonna stumble upon whatever you stumble upon. You know, nobody's putting shops in front of you. I guess.

Tim · 1:05:34
I guess I was born in an era when you had a job and that was your job, and you didn't have to do three other jobs to make that job work,

Reggie · 1:05:42
right, 100% you

Tim · 1:05:44
know, like Andy from Big C,

Reggie · 1:05:46
yeah,

Tim · 1:05:47
I was seeing her videos in LinkedIn, and she's like, yeah, I have to do this

Reggie · 1:05:50
right,

Tim · 1:05:51
because that's expected, it's required,

Reggie · 1:05:53
right,

Tim · 1:05:54
and I think that it's so fucking annoying to me that we can't have a job and then have a life, we have to have a job and then we have to do this other job, performing works

Reggie · 1:06:04
to make the job, your creative industry, like you said, right? It's a thing, yeah.

Tim · 1:06:11
And so it got me all riled up. I'm sorry if I was too passionate or just came off. Sorry

Mary · 1:06:18
when you get really heated, because I enjoy it. It's a good time, I think.

Reggie · 1:06:22
Yeah, I already know what my favorite part, anyway.

Mary · 1:06:29
Was your little vein in his forehead?

Tim · 1:06:35
Okay, so I would not

Reggie · 1:06:38
want you any other way, Tim.

Tim · 1:06:39
Yeah, I want to come to a good place, though, with you guys. In this,

Reggie · 1:06:43
you're in a good place with us. You got to come to a good place with them. I'm

Mary · 1:06:46
fine. Yeah,

Tim · 1:06:48
I caused Dylan to walk off stage with me on the couch. Now I know she's

Reggie · 1:06:57
powering over in the corner. That's hilarious. I can't wait to watch this to see her body language,

Mary · 1:07:07
and we all got really at first. Y'all were like, I'm totally disconnected from this topic, I don't even care, like I'm the only

Dylan · 1:07:16
one who actually watches these. And then we talked over her episode. I thought it was funny. I was like, I'm a product of the vlog, and then Tim's like, yeah, the vlogs fucking stupid.

Tim · 1:07:31
Maybe I should reframe this. The vlog is stupid. The pressure to vlog from to everyone is stupid, and to be

Mary · 1:07:39
fair, we did like put you in a pressure cooker, where basically we are performing a vlog in some way, and this was in many ways like we're excited to make it. We've made it into something that I think we're excited to do each week, but it was out of necessity, and like there's probably a little bit of baggage in that. We put you inside the terrarium and said you have to be inside this terrarium, the Insta Pot. Yeah, yeah, I

Tim · 1:08:05
mean, we, we had after the hurricane, our agency got some help to rebuild, and Reggie and I did a lot of research into how we could build back after the devastation, and after meeting with many different growth specialists, or marketing specialists, or all these things, it was like, no, you have to make content, that's your choice, you either make content, do well, don't make content, and be forgotten,

Mary · 1:08:37
and there's just no way of making content, and still nobody knowing anything about it there right now, which is kind of comfy in some way,

Tim · 1:08:45
and I would say anyone watching this paper, you're not making the right content, I'd agree with you. Ace isn't the right content, but I do feel in my gut this is the kind of content that is scarce in the world. I think that right now we're having a very over edited AI-generated influx of marketed, monetized content, and there's not a lot of time for someone to open up and, like, be their weird plain selves, or get heated, or I just, so, in doing it the wrong way, we're following our instincts on what it is that makes this experience interesting, and who out there connects to this experience,

Mary · 1:09:26
and I do. I've said this many times, like we waffle between, like, is it marketing, or is it, is this a product that we're making, or is this art, and we haven't really made up our mind yet. I think sometimes we do that absolutely backwards thing, just because it feels like what needs to be expressed. I think the

Reggie · 1:09:45
audience that we hopefully attract will make that decision for us.

Mary · 1:09:50
Yeah, right. They say the audience, we don't get

Reggie · 1:09:53
to choose. The audience

Tim · 1:09:54
knows quality,

Reggie · 1:09:55
yeah,

Tim · 1:09:56
based on what they're being fed by the algorithm.

Mary · 1:09:58
Open it at two. Him,

Tim · 1:10:01
that last little

Reggie · 1:10:03
little jab. In

Mary · 1:10:04
conclusion, fuck the man. Am I right?

Tim · 1:10:07
I couldn't have said it better myself

Reggie · 1:10:11
with the man.

Tim · 1:10:12
Do you want anything you want to add, Dylan? You want to get heated about me getting heated? I'm

Dylan · 1:10:16
okay.

Tim · 1:10:18
I do not think you suck at all. I think you're one of the coolest. If anything, I wish

Reggie · 1:10:22
completely not does not suck.

Tim · 1:10:24
No, and you would be very cool in a vlog, but okay. Her inner

Reggie · 1:10:34
office monologs, I think, are always compelling, and I would watch that.

Tim · 1:10:40
So, my what if is, what if I wasn't so offended by vlogs? No, the pressure to make a vlog, but I just made him, like you said, for fun,

Mary · 1:10:49
that's what I thought you were doing, babe. Try that on, just

Tim · 1:10:52
enjoy the process.

Reggie · 1:10:55
It's like he's being sculpted. What if I

Mary · 1:10:57
just enjoyed

Tim · 1:11:00
it? I feel

Dylan · 1:11:00
like there's gonna be like a ransom note held up.

Tim · 1:11:06
No, I enjoyed this episode. I think that originally didn't sound interesting to me, as I said, but it is super interesting, and I, as I'm digging through thoughts with some pushback from you guys, I do see it in a different way, and appreciate that I see myself in a different way. I think maybe it's the whole point of conversation.

Mary · 1:11:29
So excited, we made you host today

Tim · 1:11:32
chances,

Reggie · 1:11:33
and I'm sure there'll be other topics we pull out where we initially have that like uninterested response, and then because of the nature of our conversations and our generational lenses that we'll get pulled into

Mary · 1:11:47
it, and we're like getting to know each other pretty well, so it's like I actually think you do care about

Tim · 1:11:54
maybe it was a false front, because my wife's always like, well, what if you get what if you get really, she called snarky, she calls me snarky, and she says you're being snarky, you can get

Mary · 1:12:04
snarky, and I love, and she's

Tim · 1:12:06
like, but don't get snarky, so I was like trying to hold my.. I must have been subconsciously trying to hold myself back, like interested blogs,

Reggie · 1:12:13
gonna get snarky, whatever, Tim, you can get snarky,

Tim · 1:12:17
I got snarky, and I am okay with it. I feel like I worked my way through

Dylan · 1:12:23
it. Yeah, it

Tim · 1:12:24
was good for me. Was it good for you? Was it good for you? Yeah,

Mary · 1:12:30
I had a great time.

Tim · 1:12:32
Was it good for you? Will, well, thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Age. Hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you have a great day and week. See you next time. Yeah,

Mary · 1:12:49
I love that. How are you? Okay,

Tim · 1:12:52
yeah.

Mary · 1:12:55
Thanks for listening. This podcast was created and developed by our hosts, Reggie Tidwell, Tim Scroggs, Mary Green, and Dylan Garcia, produced by me, Mary Green. Live production and editing by Will Canady, graphic design by Dylan Garcia, and set design by Megan Scroggs. Today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 Hearts, creators of enduring value

Speaker · 1:13:21
and.